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Thread: Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

  1. #631
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    Perhaps I'm old fashioned, or had good ethics taught to me by my parents, but, Idle, there is only ONE way to pull a rabbit out of a hat.... you have to put one in it first

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    so whatever you do, don't vote national. they'll sell NZ out to big business in the blink of an eye as they have done in the past
    What is wrong with that.

    NZ is a small Country globally and it's location does not help it to promote overseas.

    In many case, NZ is the first in a field but does not have the structure or contacts to promote the idea overseas.

    Is it not good to have foreign investment to help promote what NZ is good at?

    Scenario's

    1. NZ business has great idea but domestic sales is not enough and inability to promote and build relationships overseas is detrimental to it's future.
    2. NZ business has great idea. Spotted by overseas investor who has overseas connections / know how and is able to build the business both domestically and globally.

    In case of 2, Business more than likely stay a NZ based one, paying taxes, providing job's, employement - spending power, which has a domino effect on other businesses who may grow etc etc.

    Why are we so against overseas investment? We talk about how great NZ is, "Made in New Zealand"......take the effect the America's Cup had on boat building as a simple example.....yet we want to keep it for ourselves rather than capitalise on what we are good at.

    Now this is a simple and less educated look on things but NZ is too small to self invest.

  3. #633
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    What is wrong with that.
    Were you here for the last lot of sellouts, started by an extreme right wing Labour government, then carried on by the Nats - strip down cut price giveaways to their mates, who then asset stripped them and sold on the husks!
    1000 million dollar handouts to companies that fucked up because they were greedy and incompetent (BNZ).
    Private companies are one thing - they will be bought and sold as and when, I have no worry with that, but, major public assets and infrastructure, should not be sold of to a "profit driven and to hell with the public" company that couldn't care less about anything except the bottom line.
    A country is a living organism, not a pile of figures on a ledger sheet. It is infinite shades of grey, not black and white. Just as you get rot and disease from too much "leftie greeny" influence, so you get raging infectious sores, from too much rampant right wing robotism!
    Too much on one side or the other, it all turns to a big pile of poo. It is possible to balance both sides of the equation, not that many governments achieve it, if any, but I reckon the current Labour government has done it better than a National government under Keys and his cronies would do.
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    idleidolidyll - I can't decide whether you are trolling or completely genuine in your political views.

    Assuming you are genuine, can I respectfully suggest that you'll get far more traction with your arguments if you desist from flaming and the occasional abusive post.

    What I'm getting at is I'd happily debate with you but when you get drawn into profanity or emotional responses, it becomes difficult to respect other rational posts from you. Tarred with the same brush as it were. Unfair but we all form impressions of each other and it colours our responses - or lack of same.

    There is a long-term member here who is communist and I never fail to respect his intellect. I disagree with him but it doesn't matter, his views are sincere and worth reading.

    Believe me, taking the higher moral ground and avoiding emotional terms will only gain you respect. And maybe even some grudging converts!
    And he continues to emotively pour forth his expletives from what he considers the moral high ground, from his convenient position of semi anonymity.

  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    perhaps so; another example of corporate pandering overcoming relationships with family and friends.
    If all my family lives in the Hokianga and I have lived in Auckland for the last 5 years, why CAN'T I go back and be with those I know and love?
    Because the world actually DOESNT owe you a living! Now, whilst the sewers of the world pour forth their filth I must continue working, millions on welfare depend on me.

  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPman View Post
    Were you here for the last lot of sellouts, started by an extreme right wing Labour government, then carried on by the Nats - strip down cut price giveaways to their mates, who then asset stripped them and sold on the husks!
    1000 million dollar handouts to companies that fucked up because they were greedy and incompetent (BNZ).
    Private companies are one thing - they will be bought and sold as and when, I have no worry with that, but, major public assets and infrastructure, should not be sold of to a "profit driven and to hell with the public" company that couldn't care less about anything except the bottom line.
    A country is a living organism, not a pile of figures on a ledger sheet. It is infinite shades of grey, not black and white. Just as you get rot and disease from too much "leftie greeny" influence, so you get raging infectious sores, from too much rampant right wing robotism!
    Too much on one side or the other, it all turns to a big pile of poo. It is possible to balance both sides of the equation, not that many governments achieve it, if any, but I reckon the current Labour government has done it better than a National government under Keys and his cronies would do.
    I agree, for different reasons.

    The “sell-outs” were a reaction to the simple fact that the services in question were hideously expensive compared to private equivalents both here and overseas. That was largely because of poor management performance and very high labour numbers and costs., the former I suspect mostly because political interference has ever been a problem for government owned commercial enterprise, and the latter because of institutional inflexibility and inefficiency. Both were apparently considered unfixable, job for life, remember? I feel it was a mistake to biff the baby with the bathwater though, we should have retained ownership of the assets and contracted out the operational requirements.

    You’re right, a country is a living organism, culturally and socially, that doesn’t mean you can ignore it’s economic health. If socialists see capitalists as heartless it’s possibly because they recognise that there’s a limit to the cultural and social problems able to be addressed commercially. A true balanced opposite of socialism in your equation would have every social resource put at the disposal of those who make the economy successful. That’s not capitalism, that’s a pre-industrial European “ideal”. Modern capitalists genuinely do represent the only workable middle ground, they simply want to be left with enough of the resources they’ve generated to remain viable. Socialists, by comparison seem to have no problem crippling the economy in order to support those who fail to contribute anything to it, a deathwish made real.

    I do get sick of the over-the-top corporate phobia, commercial interests are normally very transparent, they need to make money to survive. So what? That’s exactly the same behaviour seen in those who take advantage of a social support system they contributed nothing to. It’s not difficult to write a contract that deals with any short-changing of services. If a supplier takes advantage of a poorly written service contract I’d find fault with the idiot that wrote it, the same fault I see in the idiocy that is our completely unsustainable social policy.

    I doubt National will sell off any significant infrastructure, anything left in the public domain is so run down as to be worthless. Time, perhaps to realise that the piggy bank is empty. The contents have gone not to feed corporate greed, or to maintain the machinery required to re-fill it, but to feed a blind ideology that’s main weapon is individual greed. In the meantime our infrastructure has deteriorated from world class to third world joke, and our ability to rebuild it is threatened most by the current administration.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #637
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  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBOSSMAN View Post
    ..........
    WRONG. Couldn't be more wrong, utterly incorrect. As wrong as wrong could concevably be, ....
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  9. #639
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    Truly dumb shit from National:

    "Labour is going to use the extra money it has to bribe voters"

    "By the way, we're going to give you all tax cuts............"

    Are you clowns seriously taken in by this bullshit?

    ROTFLMFAO!

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    An excellent idea. Instead let's hand over the running of a multi-billion dollar economy to some commie meat-raffle organisers and some tree-huggers that nobody actually voted for.
    from someone who should know better we get a paragraph full of cliched fallacy

    pardon me while i roll around on the floor laughing my fucking arse off...............

  11. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pussy View Post
    Perhaps I'm old fashioned, or had good ethics taught to me by my parents, but, Idle, there is only ONE way to pull a rabbit out of a hat.... you have to put one in it first
    is there a point to that or were you just interested in seeing your post online?

  12. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    Truly dumb shit from National:

    "Labour is going to use the extra money it has to bribe voters"

    "By the way, we're going to give you all tax cuts............"

    Are you clowns seriously taken in by this bullshit?

    ROTFLMFAO!

    Who cares? - I'm alright Jack.
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  13. #643
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    That's rich coming from an attention seeker like yourself

  14. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    perhaps so; another example of corporate pandering overcoming relationships with family and friends.
    If all my family lives in the Hokianga and I have lived in Auckland for the last 5 years, why CAN'T I go back and be with those I know and love?
    No reason at all - just as long as you get a job.

    And hopefully persuade those you know and love to get a job if they don't already have one and should.
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
    " Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"

  15. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahameeboy View Post
    What is wrong with that.

    NZ is a small Country globally and it's location does not help it to promote overseas.

    and that means what? that we should prostitute our nations policies to big international businesses in order to sell some of what we make?

    In many case, NZ is the first in a field but does not have the structure or contacts to promote the idea overseas.

    I repeat my first reply

    Is it not good to have foreign investment to help promote what NZ is good at?

    No, for the most part it's not because that foreign investment comes with too many heavy strings attached. Those companies cut costs by cutting jobs and they send profits offshore. The nett effect is a reduction in real buying power for real New Zealanders and government policies hijacked by foreign interests

    Scenario's

    1. NZ business has great idea but domestic sales is not enough and inability to promote and build relationships overseas is detrimental to it's future.

    Actually, Kiwis by and large are better than most other nations at promotion and building relationships. As for sales overseas; ask the Tindall Foundation for help, ask Jim for a business development loan. I don't see the point in selling out your country just so a few rich people can get a bit richer by driving up interest rates and driving down real incomes.

    2. NZ business has great idea. Spotted by overseas investor who has overseas connections / know how and is able to build the business both domestically and globally.

    Tell them to fuck off and do it yourself. They will eventually screw you over anyway.

    In case of 2, Business more than likely stay a NZ based one, paying taxes, providing job's, employement - spending power, which has a domino effect on other businesses who may grow etc etc.

    Your guesswork is just that and quite unfounded. The persistant direction is for ever larger internationals to own everything and for local companies to be forced out of business. I'd much prefer government assistance for NZ companies rather than foreign rape.

    Why are we so against overseas investment? We talk about how great NZ is, "Made in New Zealand"......take the effect the America's Cup had on boat building as a simple example.....yet we want to keep it for ourselves rather than capitalise on what we are good at.

    To a small degree there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is that it rarely comes without the above mentioned strings attached that damage NZ society and our incomes in the medium to long term. Why else would amerikkka still have so much protectionism in IT'S system?

    Now this is a simple and less educated look on things but NZ is too small to self invest.
    No it's not. Please take a look at Singapore for an example.

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