Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[imdying]

published by the Ministry of Education of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, but I truly hope that for you it qualifies as an unbiased material. So again, layman's terms. One phrase for each, explaining the meaning of "socialism" and "communism". Remember, I ask you for a very simple explanation, geared towards schoolkids.

I don't know much (anything ?) about communism vs capitalism, but I wouldn't thought that his definition was reasonably succinct and simple enough for any school kid of an age where knowing the difference was relevant?

Going on from idleidolidyll's definition (because I don't see that debate coming to a conclusion any time soon!), I do wonder if perhaps both of them are a crap idea anyway in modern society. I mean, we know capitalism is raping the planet quite convincly, but communism seems to rely on the goodness of man too much.

Perhaps capitalism has served it's purpose (propelling us to a reasonable state of tech?), and communism whilst seemingly pretty fair and huggy, just ain't realistic (with the state of man being what it is). I assume they both had their place once upon a time (people obviously thought they were good ideas at the time), but perhaps what we need is a new ism' to satisfy the way the world is now?

[Street Gerbil]

I don't know much (anything ?) about communism vs capitalism, but I wouldn't thought that his definition was reasonably succinct and simple enough for any school kid of an age where knowing the difference was relevant?

Actually, I failed 3i's answer for two reasons:
a) He answered the wrong question, since I asked him about socialism and communism, rather than capitalism.
b) Because 3i's answer is fundamentally incorrect.
To give you an analogy in a motorcycle world, his answer is equivalent to saying that definition of a Kawasaki motorcycle is a neon-green color. Yes, some Kwakas may be neon green, but only a few of them, moreover, that's not what make them Kwakas.

[imdying]

Point A is fair (I assume), but surely the depth of answer that would satisfy B couldn't be accomplished given 'one short phrase that a school kid could understand'?

[davereid]

Capitalism is a system in which the means of production (power) is wielded by capitalists (those with wealth).
Socialism is a system in which the means of production (power) is wielded by the people (the voters in a democracy).

No. There are two types of "systems".

The first to arrive was capitalisim. It's willing buyer, willing seller, negotiated price, product, and quality.

It will aways have its charlatans, those who actually don't deliver on the deal or misrepresent it.

But thats human nature, not a failing in the system.

The second system to arrive was the control economy. This is a system where those with power (an army or police force) are in control. Feudalisim, communisim and socialisim are examples of these systems.
It also has its charlatans.

The difference ? Violence.

Willing buyer - willing seller, fair price is the only system that requires no violence.

[Street Gerbil]

surely the depth of answer that would satisfy B couldn't be accomplished given 'one short phrase that a school kid could understand'?

I am asking for a simple answer, not an incorrect one. To give a motorbike analogy again, the answer provided is "A motorcycle is a neon-green vehicle", rather than "a 2-wheeled motor vehicle that sometimes is painted neon-green".

[imdying]

I am asking for a simple answer, not an incorrect one. To give a motorbike analogy again, the answer provided is "A motorcycle is a neon-green vehicle", rather than "a 2-wheeled motor vehicle that sometimes is painted neon-green".

Ok, so what's the correct answer to that question?

[Usarka]

I am asking for a simple answer, not an incorrect one. To give a motorbike analogy again, the answer provided is "A motorcycle is a neon-green vehicle", rather than "a 2-wheeled motor vehicle that sometimes is painted neon-green".

i shouldnt have inhaled.....

[Robert Taylor]

Socialism ''thrives'' when the same people perpetuating it also create state dependency. ''Working for families'' is a great example, overtax them in the first place and then use an army of paid state beneficiaries to give some of it back. Perverse, and deliberately done to engender fear that such subsidy will be lost if you dont vote for the morons running this country.
I giggled a little when I heard about Tau Henares tiff with Mallard and Ill takes sides on that. And, Ill happily put up the first $100 for an opposition MP to sink to Mallards level by punching Cullens lights out, thereby wiping the self satisfied grin off that cocky little badger

[Street Gerbil]

Ok, so what's the correct answer to that question?

Do you really expect me to give an answer such as "Professor Snape dies on page 658", or "the murderer of Sir Henry Baskerville is Jack Stapleton"? That would be *SO* unsportsmanlike. But I promise, you will know the correct answer in the end.

[imdying]

Do you really expect me to give an answer such as "Professor Snape dies on page 658", or "the murderer of Sir Henry Baskerville is Jack Stapleton"? That would be *SO* unsportsmanlike. But I promise, you will know the correct answer in the end.

How do I know his answer is wrong if I haven't got yours to compare it to?

[Robert Taylor]

ahh, there ya go with the usual propaganda and ill informed ignorance again.

that's ok though, the smaller the mind of the poster, the less ignorant bullshit i feel the need to refute

Finn, dont forget that HIS way is the only way and that if you express a viewpoint sympathetic to filthy capitalism and liberal thinking you will incur a long verbal diatribe of left wing propaganda. It wont be too long before unreformable right thinking people like you and I will be ordered by the State to attend political re-education classes.

I rather think this has become a contest of who shouts loudest and longest. To that end there is a clear winner.

[Street Gerbil]

How do I know his answer is wrong if I haven't got yours to compare it to?

You don't, for the time being. But I promise you will. I truly wish to give 3i a fighting chance to give the correct answer.

[imdying]

I guess that would be fair

[steveb64]

Finn, dont forget that HIS way is the only way and that if you express a viewpoint sympathetic to filthy capitalism and liberal thinking you will incur a long verbal diatribe of left wing propaganda. It wont be too long before unreformable right thinking people like you and I will be ordered by the State to attend political re-education classes.

I rather think this has become a contest of who shouts loudest and longest. To that end there is a clear winner.

Oh, I dunno - I thought he was being quite reasonable - compared to a thread (flame war?) I've been having with some American religious zealots over in a US M/C site... I did look at some of the earlier pages, and was REAL tempted to leap in here - did visit... - but the Yanks had worn me down enough I couldn't be buggered... Play nice guys...

[Winston001]

Doesn't it puzzle you III that socialist thinking has been vibrantly alive since the French revolution yet no country in the world has ever successfully embraced it?