Fork Gunge Replacement (VTR1000)

[vifferman]

I've decided it's high time I replaced the gunge in my front forks with something less viscous. Like oil, f'rinstance.
I have a manual, which details how to do stuff, but I still want to ensure I have all the facts, or at least, a vague-ish approximation therein, given that the last time I undertook a similar task was 29 years ago.
The forx do not have a drain bolt, so the method I applied then (wheel the bike down to the back garden, remove drains, pump the hell out of the front end, replace plugs, refill with carefully measured ATF) won't do the trick. Apart from anything else, there is no vehicular access to our back garden.:spudwhat:

So. Some degree of disassembly is required in this case, methinx.
My proposed method is as follows:

1. Remove bars, front mudguard, front wheel, etc. etc.
2. Remove forx.
3. Pick up bike from heap on the ground, and support it securely.
4. Remove fork caps, springs, miscellaneous hardware.
5. Drain gunge, pumping as necessary to remove as much as possible.
6. Rinse with kero, and repeat previous step.
7. Rinse with some sort of fluid (ATF, cooking erl, chorosulphonic acid, Lion Brown) to remove traces of kero.
8. Refill to recommended level with summat oily.
9. Put forx back together and reinstall on bike.
10. Ride, ride, ride!

Now. What I want to know, is will this work, or do I need to replace steps 6 and 7 with:
"Completely disassemble fork tubes" and
"Inspect bushes etc. for signs of too many wheelies, despair, throw tantrum on gargre floor, grovel to accountant/wife for more money for bike parts" and
"Wait 3 weeks for the Honda dealers to procure bushes, fork seals, sundry unobtanium parts" ??:spudwhat:

Or should I forget the whole thing, and take my bike somewhere reputable for a complete front suspension makeover? It's working sort of OK, but the action feels a little stiff, and I suspect it's been many moons since the fluid was replaced. I have a strong suspicion that just a fluid replacement on its own will work a minor miracle.

[Dr Bob]

You forgot the bit where you spend 40 minutes looking for the thing that dropped on the floor between here and there and rolled under the other thing.

[vifferman]

You forgot the bit where you spend 40 minutes looking for the thing that dropped on the floor between here and there and rolled under the other thing.

There'll be more than one of those. Goes without saying.
Also the interruptions from the phone, wife or kids; stopping to have fork gunge flushed from eyes; swearing breaks; having knuckles bandaged up, etc etc.
Reasonable guesstimate for this job is 2 hours, so it'll prolly be a 3-weeker...

[jrandom]

Personally, were I in a financial position to pay half a day's worth of exorbitant labour costs, I'd just get a quote and then give it to the nice men at Colemans or Cyclespot for the day, blagging the tastiest loaner I could in the process. I would then spend all that precious summer weekend and/or evening time out riding my newly-suspended pride and joy, instead of sitting in the gargre swearing at it.

But then I'm a lazy, inept sod with fifteen thumbs, and you're an industrious optimist who enjoys mechanical things. So YMMV.

[Paul in NZ]

Pauls First Law of the Workshop.

Don't bother lookin' for the thing... It's not there. All things dropped in workshop situations fall into worm holes and are transported to saturn (thats what the rings are made of).

Pauls Second Law of the Workshop.

Sometimes they do get sucked back through the worm hole by the vacuum created in your wallet caused by purchasing replacement parts.

Pauls Third Law of the Workshop.

All assemblies are created of lot's of parts. There are 2 sorts of parts. Parts that you don't drop and parts you do drop. All parts you drop are made of unobtainium, the rarest element in the universe. Unobtainium is a semi naturally occuring element found only on back order. It is never available in under 6 weeks. Be careful of obtainium parts because they are either the wrong part (that you didn't need) of made of didn't-fitium.

Paul's Fourth Law of the Workshop.

The people that write the service manuals have seldom worked on a bike and if they did, it was not one like yours.

[vifferman]

Personally, were I in a financial position to pay half a day's worth of exorbitant labour costs, I'd just get a quote and then give it to the nice men at Colemans or Cyclespot for the day, blagging the tastiest loaner I could in the process. I would then spend all that precious summer weekend and/or evening time out riding my newly-suspended pride and joy, instead of sitting in the gargre swearing at it.

But then I'm a lazy, inept sod with fifteen thumbs, and you're an industrious optimist who enjoys mechanical things. So YMMV.

Hmmm... now that I think about it, the accountant/wife may have actually said the same thing.
Are there bike shops that do loaners? I've only managed that once, with this supercharged beauty (the RRrrred RRRrrrocket):

[jrandom]

Hmmm... now that I think about it, the accountant/wife may have actually said the same thing.
Are there bike shops that do loaners? I've only managed that once, with this supercharged beauty (the RRrrred RRRrrrocket):

I am 99% sure that both Colemans and Cyclespot will do what they can for you in terms of demos or second-handers off the showroom floor, possibly even taking into account your stated preference of bike that you might just buy if you like it a lot, etc, etc, particularly if you book the workshop time somewhat in advance.

Best give them a call and see.

[riffer]

Don't bother lookin' for the thing... It's not there... All parts you drop are made of unobtainium, the rarest element in the universe. Unobtainium is a semi naturally occuring element found only on back order. It is never available in under 6 weeks. Be careful of obtainium parts because they are either the wrong part (that you didn't need) of made of didn't-fitium.

Paul - that's my life!

I'm SO pleased to hear that other people have exactly the same thing happen to them when fixing their bikes.

FS - If you just want to replace the fork oil you shouldn't need to pull them apart.

Watch out though - in tweaking your suspension you may accidentally call up one of the motorcycle demons, which can only be vanquished by either spending lots of money on something you break while fixing the bike, or worse yet, by binning the bike

[vifferman]

FS - If you just want to replace the fork oil you shouldn't need to pull them apart.

Fanx. That's what I wanted to hear.

Watch out though - in tweaking your suspension you may accidentally call up one of the motorcycle demons, which can only be vanquished by either spending lots of money on something you break while fixing the bike, or worse yet, by binning the bike

Been there, done that. More'n once.
Broke me TPS fiddlin abart wid de carbs, then nearly bruk it again the next time I fidddle widdem. Still, they're only made of plastic, not unobtainium, so they cost only a few shekels. ($290!!)

And I found the shinier and better my VFR was going, the more likely it was to want to lie doon in t'road.:spudwhat:

Trouble with V's, is they usually have a gravity vortex (probably caused by a small piece of black hole) between the cylinders. I have dropped screws, sockets and nuts galore into the engine V countless times (no - I'm NOT exaggerating). Luckily, the guy who installed the ADSL line kindly left his fancy srewdriver behind. (Fair payment for drilling holes everywhere when he didn't need to, I thought.) Anyhoo, it has a telescopic magnetic tip, which is handy for retrieving things from the Bowels of The Beast, especially when they're invisible. Luckily, Honda only charges for things as if they're made of unobtainium, but actually makes them out of steel, so I can retrieve them with Mr Driller's screwdriver, even when the gravity vortex has rendered them invisible (oweing to the black hole material sucking light rays back in).
Only thing I never found was a Dzus fastener that wasn't.

Fastened, that is.

So what's a mere $19 for a small screw, hmm?
Oh - and I also haven't found what's causing the bike to surge slightly at 4K rpm on constant throttle. Prolly a small bird, animal or child that got sucked down the gravity well/vortex, and then was ingested by one o'them sucky things.

[Dr Bob]

Although you won't need to pull them apart, if there is no drain plug you may need to tip them upside down to remove the old 'stuff', possibly a procedure carried out by removing the forks; however, Mr Random can testify that you can turn your motorcyle upside down with minimal damage. If there is an allen key bolt going up through the bottom then remove it with caution. It could be used to secure the damper assembly and although it may be removed, you can't guarantee that you could tighten it again as the damper assembly may just rotate in the tube. Of course all this depends on you bike and forks etc. and I may be completely wrong.

[Dr Bob]

And one more thing...

You obviousley need to remove the bit at the top of the forks to get the 'stuff' out. Most probably circlip, with spring waiting to get you (and air pressure too if you haven't let this out).

[vifferman]

Although you won't need to pull them apart, if there is no drain plug you may need to tip them upside down to remove the old 'stuff', possibly a procedure carried out by removing the forks; however, Mr Random can testify that you can turn your motorcyle upside down with minimal damage. If there is an allen key bolt going up through the bottom then remove it with caution. It could be used to secure the damper assembly and although it may be removed, you can't guarantee that you could tighten it again as the damper assembly may just rotate in the tube. Of course all this depends on you bike and forks etc. and I may be completely wrong.

Yup, I know about the allen key thingo, and the turning upside down, etc.
The reason I posted here is I am somewhat loathe to remove the damper et alia, as I have heard that it usually requires loosening the allen key using a pneumatic blonde, or failing that, a pneumatic wrench doodad. So I was hoping to do the whole job with minimal dismantlerating.

You obviousley need to remove the bit at the top of the forks to get the 'stuff' out. Most probably circlip, with spring waiting to get you (and air pressure too if you haven't let this out).

Covered by step 4 of my initial post (sort of a grandfather clause - possibly Santa's Dad, or even Satan's Dad.... )

I thought a few well-placed holes would ease off the air pressure.
I was just going to close the gargre firmly, and let the springs bounce around until they'd settled down enough to catch them.

[That Guy]

Not done it on the VTR but many times on the RGV (long story).

The bext way is to get one of those folding fork stands that has a male piece that goes into the centre hole on the bottom fork clamp. Suspends wheel off the ground and away you go.
I don't have one of these though so I put 2 tiedowns from the cieling in the garage around the top triple clamps. Does the job.

Taking the caps off and pumping will get the oil out (watch springs and spacers don't clatter out onto the floor etc.) Take springs out and wipe clean with clean rag.

I wouldn't use kero to clean.....what would that do to bushes/seals etc? I'd flush them with the oil I intend to use (buy a bit more than you need)...put in fresh oil, pupm that a few times and tip that out, then re-fill.

Since the forks are out I'd consider replacing at least the dust seals too.

What weight are you going to use? I reckon the VTR forks are ok but a bit slow....lighter weight would speed them up but you'd need to counter that with more pre-load and even better if you could adjust it, more compression....

[vifferman]

I wouldn't use kero to clean.....what would that do to bushes/seals etc?

Probably nothing at all. It's fairly benign. The main risk would be dilution of the fork erl, if any kero remained.
I just want to be sure I get rid of all the gunk from the bottom of the forks. There's bound to be some, judging by how grubby the rest of the bike was when I bought it.

Since the forks are out I'd consider replacing at least the dust seals too.

Yeah. They are a bit dodgy.
Thanx, Dude.

[That Guy]

Probably nothing at all. It's fairly benign. The main risk would be dilution of the fork erl, if any kero remained..

I never listened in Chemistry unless things were blowing up so I have absoloutely no idea hence my caution so if you are happy with it I'm sure it would be fine then. Would do a better job of breaking down the gunge...

I just want to be sure I get rid of all the gunk from the bottom of the forks. There's bound to be some, judging by how grubby the rest of the bike was when I bought it.
Yeah. They are a bit dodgy.
Thanx, Dude.

While I'm at it the problem I had wiht the RGV was the stanchions had some pit marks in them, which were tearing the fork seals. If you've got them out of the bike I'd check the stanchions for any nicks (flying stones from following other sticky tired sport bikes are like bullets as I'm sure you'll know!) and if there are any, just a little wet&dry will sort them out. Better than going thorugh all the work only to find first ride after putting them back in the seals are leaking.....