A man's/father's point

**klingon** · 12th October 2007, 11:00

Originally Posted by sunhuntin

women are for the most part total bitches ...

Wow! Harsh words! You must be hanging around with the wrong women! I know some women are bitches, but most of them/us are kind and decent people. We're let down by those who make false accusations just to get their own way.

I have a friend who has been fighting with his ex-wife for a couple of years now, just to get fair access to his kids. It's a shocking state for any parent to be in. But I identify with him not her, and make sure I give him as much support as I can. He's a brilliant father. You'd think his ex would want her sons to have plenty of time with their father to learn how to be men like him.

sunhuntin, I'm sorry you feel ashamed to be a woman and I hope you get to meet some of the lovely women out there who love their husbands/partners/children and treat them with decency and respect. There are plenty of us, maybe we just don't bark as loudly as the bitches!

**ManDownUnder** · 12th October 2007, 11:05

[quote=klingon;1244002]Wow! Harsh words! You must be hanging around with the wrong women! I know some women are bitches, but most of them/us are kind and decent people. We're let down by those who make false accusations just to get their own way.quote]

I concur - and add that the picture's the same on my side of the fence. Not all men are bastards... just enough to hit the headlines.

Women are lovely creatures. Shame bad circuamstances can make them (as well as men) bitter and twisted. Understandible, but a shame nonetheless

**Macktheknife** · 12th October 2007, 11:31

Originally Posted by klingon

You'd think his ex would want her sons to have plenty of time with their father to learn how to be men like him.

Actually, no I wouldn't.
Generally speaking, when a relationship ends there is a lot of bitterness and anger towards the partner. When kids are involved, they see that and hear the negative shit they (generally women) spout about the absent parent. Women often have a very negative opinion of someone they 'used to love' and so they cannot see any value in having the kids spend any time with that person, because they are automatically a bastard for whatever 'perceived harm' ended the relationship.

As to why men tend to get the shitty end of the stick in court/breakups.... sadly, we tend to make easy targets.
Women will often be at the lawyers office 3-6 months before a breakup (or really quickly afterwards), they get together with others who have gone through things and learn everything there is to know about where to go for help and advice and what gets the results in legal terms.
Guys will sit around for weeks being miserable and surprised that everything went south, by the time they get out of that phase they are already too late and find the law is firmly on the side of the women and they should have had stuff done weeks or months ago to have any chance at all.

All we can do is hope that the kids will grow up and work things out for themselves, make sure there is always a reminder of some sort about you around. And make sure when they come of age there is an invitation to find you and get to know you again.

One guy I know is keeping all the money he would have spent on presents and stuff in a bank account for his kids, when they come of age the money will be there for them with a ticket to wherever he is if they want to come and see him, delivery by a legal firm with a letter explaining his side of the story.
Seems like a good idea to me.

**Grahameeboy** · 12th October 2007, 11:51

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

I'm not saying it's THE cause, but I see classic sex role stereotyping at play here. Men = provider, Mother = nurturer.

Is ths law simply enforcing those roles?

I personally can't see how a child can grow up with a "normal" view of the world without a mother and a father showing them how to act, and respect those of the opposite gender. (and I am reluctant to use "normal" but couldn't find anything better... sorry). It's probably the one hangup I have with same sex relationships too. I'm just not sure how that works. Kids need a he and a she in their lives. Biological attachment or otherwise is a secondary issue (not too far distant however).

That said, I need my kids in my life. Someone posted earlier they had to give up their son. That would just destroy me. I can't fathom that... I really can't.

Lee - keep giong man. If ever there was a worthy cause... this has to be it.

Listen to MDU Lee and feel free to pm me for encourangement.

**peasea** · 12th October 2007, 13:06

Originally Posted by canarlee

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?

the courts, the people, etc allways (well almost, and aint that the truth) decide against the man?

WHY?

its only a very few who dont deserve, so why the fuck do the rest of us get punished?

Been through it myself old bean. I learnt heaps about the Family Court system and the last time I went to the North Shore branch I didn't even bother with a lawyer, generally they're the biggest scum suckers on the planet, preying on other people's misery. (Although the first one I had, a female, was great but she gave up family law.) Anyway, that last court appearance a couple of years back was to defend against a full custody application by my ex, not only did she lose but I got an extra four weeks per year. Now my two girls are older and one has chosen to move in here after eventually developing her own opinions of what her mother is really like. My other daughter has better defence mechanisms and 'shuts her out'.

Don't ever give up; my kids know the effort I put in to ensuring I got time with them and now they appreciate it and feel loved/wanted.

PM me if you like, I might be able to help with specific points but each case is different, as you're probably aware. The hardest thing is staying calm and I know I failed in that regard once or twice but looking back I'm soooooo glad I didn't bop the ex, I would have lost even more than I did.

It's always possible to bounce back and your kids will admire you for it.

PS: See my 'dads get stitched up' thread.

**cheese** · 12th October 2007, 13:12

My brother was being harrased by his ex and he took out a restraining order and all and she still harrased him. They were doing the same course at tech and she would steal his project and hand them in as her own, they didn't want to know about it. She would break in to his house and leave little bits and pieces of stuff that she stole from him as little reminders that she was around, she would break in and change light bulbs in his house to 25w ones, which he would change to a 100w one then she would do it again. really freaking nutter fuck with your brain shit you know.

Bu the cops thought it was all BS and so did the Polytech. if it was the other way round my brother would have been arrested!!

**Finn** · 12th October 2007, 13:13

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.

Bring back the burning of witches.

**Joni** · 12th October 2007, 13:22

Hmmm Finn... and looking at your post, have you ever wondered what in men makes some women hate them?

On topic - I know of one or two people (men) on KB who have faced this unfareness in the NZ approach to custody, very sad!

Like mentioned before the children will turn back when they can make up their own minds... I met my father when I was 23... and I still to this day consider myself a daddies girl... love him.... miss him too

**ynot slow** · 12th October 2007, 20:20

Shit we're not bad guys,all showing a bit of caring,which contrary to lawyers we are incapable of doing.

Piss take aside,when the guy gets told you'll never see the kid/s again,that's when it hits the fan,father takes his kids and reasons if I can't be with them ever noone will,bang all dead,easy way out for him in his weird way.

Agree with coments about the women gossiping together prior to walking,not that it happened to me but a mate for sure.

**peasea** · 12th October 2007, 20:26

Originally Posted by Finn

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.

Bring back the burning of witches.

ala "Holy Grail" style.

Bring it on.

**Chickadee** · 12th October 2007, 21:23

Tiz a shame when kids end up in the middle of parental wars.

There are some bloody loving Dads that end up with the brown end of the stick and their kids get poisened against them. I'm sure there are some fathers who should be cut out of their kids lives and Mothers the same, but too many deserving parents don't get the opportunity either due to or despite court rulings.

Lets hope all kids that grow up come to get their own perspective of balance between their Mum and Dad. We're all human and have our failings. Just because a relationship fails doesn't mean you get to fail your kids as parents.

I'd like to think I'm someone that wouldn't use kids as weapons, it's fuckin childish and totally selfish of the parent/s. You have to put your own issues aside and be the big person for the sake of your children.

**Colapop** · 22nd October 2007, 12:25

What do you do? If the relationship is over then when is the right time? There is no right time and someone is going to get hurt. Usually the kids - they're the one who see both loving parents as nuturer's. They don't see the 'sides' to the story as each parent will have. I guess that's why it's so hard on people to leave a marriage - coz there is no right time. I came across this stuff article about adult kids dealing with their parents divorce. There is no right time.

There is no more caring image than a mother breastfeeding (it has been said) so it's natural that this image will be carried forward and the mother will be assumed to be the best choice for the kids (in the judges eyes) When someone is hurting they'll use whatever means they can to ensure that the other person hurts as much as they do.

**Winston001** · 22nd October 2007, 18:18

For what it is worth, many couples separate without any drama. No arguments over property or child custody. It is the other cases we tend to hear about where there is bitterness and anger. This gives a skewed impression of divorce.

Teenagers take it hardest because they have spent the most time with mum and dad. Plus their hormones make them vulnerable to any instability.

If the parents are able to separate calmly, not run each other down, and include the children in decisions about when they see each parent, they adapt very well.

**canarlee** · 22nd October 2007, 23:15

Originally Posted by Finn

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.

it aint man hating women that do this.

its mainly men that are employed in this sector.