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Thread: Feeling a little over-taxed this morning?

  1. #1
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    Feeling a little over-taxed this morning?

    An argument one often hears to try and convince people, that we shouldn’t get some of our taxes back, is that yes we had a big surplus this year, but hey look at the projections for future years - that surplus won’t be so large.

    So let us review the history of Treasury projections of the Operating Balance or surplus.

    The 2003/04 surplus was $7.4 billion. It was originally forecast to be $3.2 billion.

    The 2004/05 surplus was $5.8 billion. It was originally forecast to be $2.7 billion.

    The 2005/06 surplus was $11.5 billion. It was originally forecast to be $4.2 billion.

    The 2006/07 surplus was $8.7 billion. It was originally forecast to be $6.2 billion.

    Now to be fair to Treasury, forecasting the income and expenditure for an entire country is difficult. Hell it can be hard to forecast earnings for a single company, let alone all of them. Nevertheless their conservatism is starting to affect the credibility of the forecasts.

    I’m more forgiving of a $6 billion change from an initial forecast four years out, to an actual than a smaller change over a smaller time period. But let’s look at how the forecasts for 06/07 have changes over the years:

    May 2003 = $6.2 billion
    May 2004 = $5.1 billion
    May 2005 = $5.3 billion
    May 2006 = $5.8 billion
    Dec 2006 = $6.3 billion
    May 2007 = $6.6 billion
    June 2007 = $8.7 billion (actual)

    Yes the surplus to 30 June was $2.1 billion higher than when the Budget came out in May.

    Now this year’s surplus was forecast in the BEFU to be $6.4 billion. That means it could well be over $9 billion, which would make the surplus over five years exceed $40 billion... of your money.

    From the Dom Post...

    What it is proof of is that his Government is over-taxing New Zealanders, a bad practice that insulates ministers and officials from spending mistakes - because they can be written off without consequence - and makes individuals more dependent upon the state.

    Treasury’s view that the state is on a “structurally higher” revenue track than previously believed makes some sort of announcement about tax cuts almost inevitable in next year’s Budget, which conveniently falls just a few months before the election. But, if past experience is anything to go by, the amounts involved will be small and the wait to receive them long. This is not a government that relishes relinquishing its grip on individuals’ wallets. Previously it has argued that returning surplus revenue to those who earned it would fuel inflation, a self-serving argument that has encouraged ministers and officials to bid opportunistically for the surplus cash.

    Dr Cullen has previously argued that he does not need a tax cut. Given his $255,000 salary as deputy prime minister and the generous superannuation fund waiting for him in retirement it is difficult to disagree with him.

    But there is a world of difference between earning $4900 a week and $1150 - the amount earned by someone on a $60,000 salary.


    I would also observe that Dr Cullen doesn’t need taxpayer funded superannuation, yet he is happy enough to take that, yet not happy to give tax cuts, on the basis he personally doesn’t need them. Somewhat inconsistent.

    Nice going Labour.

  2. #2
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    The surplus is there for a good reason. labour will use it next year to buy votes before the election.

  3. #3
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    Well hell, my vote is for sale for $10000 if they want it. Maybe should start an auction on Trademe fto make it easy for them to buy it.
    "I came into this game for the action, the excitement... go anywhere, travel light,... get in, get out,... wherever there's trouble, a man alone... Now they got the whole country sectioned off; you can't make a move without a form."

    Paved roads are just another example of wasted tax payer dollars.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usarka View Post
    The surplus is there for a good reason. labour will use it next year to buy votes before the election.

    Or to fund the re election campaign
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

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    That little smurf cullen gives me the shits !!!! G.

    You'd never go hungry with Nigella Gaz.
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    Do National have a policy of reducing the personal tax rates and/or increasing threshholds should they win the next term?
    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
    Do National have a policy of reducing the personal tax rates and/or increasing threshholds should they win the next term?
    Too early yet, but they've got one hell of a mess to clean up first. I have personally spoken to John Key about tax amongst other things and he certainly inspires confidence.

  8. #8
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    Big bribefest on its way....
    Lollynomics indeed.

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    It's disturbing given that 'they' are talking about taxing us even more, because we're naughty and use too much of the expensive petrol they derive so much of the surplus from, and drive too many of the shitty cars car dealers are allowed to import and sell at inflated prices because a previous Gubmint decided we should have a "free market economy".
    Which no-one else in the world has.

    Coz it's dumb.

    What's more disturbing than the surplus is how good our economy could've been if that arsehole Muldoon hadn't scrapped the national superannuation scheme, pilfered its contents, and sold off all the silverware for pathetic prices in a depressed world market.
    If he was smarter, he would've waited till TardMe was invented and sold it on there. He would've got a few shekels more, and some interesting feedback.

    Apparently, we'd have the highest level of savings/investment per capita in the developed world (over$110k each), and one of the healthiest economies.

    Stupid pharkin politicians.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  10. #10
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    Mate I always feel over taxed but thanks for reminding me exactly how much I'm being fleeced.

    At least our healthcare, education and justice systems are world class.... NOT.

    So where does it all go? Paying off debt? Helping people live beyond their means? 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation dole bludgers?

    ... nifty...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder View Post
    ........
    So where does it all go? Paying off debt? Helping people live beyond their means? 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation dole bludgers?

    ... nifty...

    I, also, would love an answer to this question.

    We have 50,000 governmental employees. Their wages is a big slice of the pie.

    The armed forces, the police, transport, get sod all of the divvy.

    There has always seemed to be a very distinct lack of accountability with regards to the disposal of what is essentially public monies. The government departments seem to make it very hard to actually discern where thier respective budgets are spent or even why they need budgets of a particular size.

    Dont forget that apart fron our personal income tax we are also taxed on everything we purchase and even pay taxes on taxes.

    I would not be very supprised that if one were to seriously look into how much the government steals back, that you would find that you only recieve 30-40 % of your earnings.

    Some sort of accountability needs to be implemented. If only to actually promote a trust in our government. Something which is severely lacking today.
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

  12. #12
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    A damn good thing that HALF A BILLION dollars was NOT spent on the health system. Presumably this was in the health budget, but Scrooge McCullen slid it into his vote-purchasing account instead!
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

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    Indeed, we should be getting a better deal re taxation, and I also question alot of the needless spending. But looking at the other side of the coin, (no pun intended), at least it is a surplus, that hasn't got us running cap in hand to the other countries to help bail us out of a massive deficit like the US will ultimately need to do.
    If you wish to view total incompetence with regards to Govt spending, check out the US treasury. 800+ Billion in dept, and growing every day. Those loans will get called in, and industry will not be able to save them.
    The new Roman Empire that is America, is getting close to a major collapse.
    MHO.

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    Bugger a tax cut, give me a rebate.

    Better still, can the govt please f**kin front up and pay for the repairs to my leaky home. If I ever meet the arshole who decided to dissolve the BIA when the leaky homes crisis hit. I'll kick his arse for free.
    "Atomic batteries to power...turbines to speed..."
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    ...hell, am I really that angry?
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