Pilot Road 2 for The Concours 14?

[jrandom]

Well, whatever y'all do, avoid Dunlop D221s like the plague.

I attach a photograph of what the rear tyre on the K1200RS looked like after less than a thousand km since new (bit of a pootle around the central NI, plus a Coromandel loop). Complete disintegration.

The heat cycles involved have hardened the rubber, and its grip is now pathetic.

The bike in question will be getting Avon Storms very shortly.

[Ocean1]

The Storms, like most sports touring tyres for that matter, are totally up to a bit of aggression. To a point where I wonder why sprotsbike riders who don't ride on the track and who go fanging for less than 10% of the distances they ride insist on buying small penis sports tyres when, for about the same money, they could use something that handles almost as well and lasts more than twice as long.

Whelp… I’m partial to my skin, (required coverage aside). I know pretty well how far I can push Michelin S12 knobblies, I’ve spent a bunch of skin establishing exactly that. I’ve got limited experience as to exactly where the limits of my road tyres are however, and not much inclination to discover them all at once. Sooo, I like the idea of a tyre that, (while maybe lacking in ultimate stickability), gives me some warning before failing to maintain a required skin/asphalt separation. The theory goes that’ll allow me to explore those limits with slightly less painful consequences.

The Super Corsa’s I had are my only experimental baseline, and I wasn’t impressed with their predictability on the road. Not surprising, they’re apparently not for the faint hearted, requiring a moderately brutal workout to achieve the desired result. I HAD organised some PR2s, a choice based on their rumoured effectiveness in sub-optimal conditions. The shop took this to mean Pilot Powers though, (in spite of the fact that they’d had my PR2s on order for weeks), and as it’d been a close call in the first place I let it stand.

A couple of weeks down the track, (well, road) I’m pleased with them, especially in the damp. They might not last as long but they seem to give more feedback AND more grip. It’s the predictability that interests me more though, and once I’ve learned a bit more about where those limits are I’ll have a baseline of 2 flavours of tyre, and hopefully what remains of my skin.

So, y’see for me it’s not about the ultimate in any specific handling criteria, it’s about broadening that difference between “whoops” and “Aw fuck”, because that’s where I learn. If someone had suggested that Avon storms offered such a characteristic I’d have bought them, even at the cost of outright handling performance.

[Meanie]

Thanks all for the sugestions, I am going to enquire about the price and size of the Storms against the PR2,s and make my decision from there and let you know what i decide to do
You cant ever have too much info
Curious as to why my bike would be chewing out a back tyre and Bandits a front tyre when they are exactly the same bike, we even are within 50 ks of each other. What would do this? riding style maybe

[Meanie]

Well, whatever y'all do, avoid Dunlop D221s like the plague.

I attach a photograph of what the rear tyre on the K1200RS looked like after less than a thousand km since new (bit of a pootle around the central NI, plus a Coromandel loop). Complete disintegration.

The heat cycles involved have hardened the rubber, and its grip is now pathetic.

The bike in question will be getting Avon Storms very shortly.

Aww crap thats not too impressive
Thought about taking them back ?

[Ocean1]

If this were true, manufacturers would surely have published tables that showed km to reach "optimum" temperature for varying road and air temperatures. And I would have imagined that modern tyre compounds were increasingly less sensitive to things like temperature, compared to tyres from days of yore on which most myths and legends are based?

What, and leave wide themselves open to the inevitable lawsuits?
Besides, effective marketing is a far better tool for the selling of anything than mere numerical facts.

A table of suitability might be nice, but in truth will never happen. Too many variables. And tyre temp is still a biggie - try giving any bike a heavy lean within the first few hundred metres (at least) of setting off (cold) and see how you get on.

FWIW I can report that both a ZZR1200 and 'Busa running (coincidentally) identical pressures to my Buell get significantly warmer at exactly the same speeds/road.

[jrandom]

Aww crap thats not too impressive
Thought about taking them back ?

They were fitted by eMoto immediately prior to the bike being delivered. The tyre photos and explanation were sent through, but eMoto were not interested in discussing the suitability of their choice of tyre.

Shrug. Whatcha gonna do eh.

[MSTRS:Me]

FWIW I can report that both a ZZR1200 and 'Busa running (coincidentally) identical pressures to my Buell get significantly warmer at exactly the same speeds/road.

Which was my point - heavy bikes heat their tyres up more/faster so can go with a harder compound to achieve (some) longevity.

[Zapf]

May I suggest the Strada's.

I am using PR2's on the Bird atm, and compare with the Strada. They do not turn in as fast, as they require more lean before reaching the curved part of the tire. So you can say they are fat in the middle and hence more rubber to burn.

On my last set of Strada they lasted over 10'000k and still have a 1/3~1/4 tread left. I would think the PR2's would last longer, but the Strada's are more sporty and warm up quicker.

So Strada is next for me on the Bird.

[NZsarge]

Well, whatever y'all do, avoid Dunlop D221s like the plague.

I attach a photograph of what the rear tyre on the K1200RS looked like after less than a thousand km since new (bit of a pootle around the central NI, plus a Coromandel loop). Complete disintegration.

The heat cycles involved have hardened the rubber, and its grip is now pathetic.

The bike in question will be getting Avon Storms very shortly.

Man thats insane! Just goes to confirm my feelings about Dunlops, They were never getting anywhere near my car and certainly not my bike..

[NZsarge]

Thanks all for the sugestions, I am going to enquire about the price and size of the Storms against the PR2,s and make my decision from there and let you know what i decide to do
You cant ever have too much info
Curious as to why my bike would be chewing out a back tyre and Bandits a front tyre when they are exactly the same bike, we even are within 50 ks of each other. What would do this? riding style maybe

Sounds like a fair call. The differences between your bike and Banditriders could be as simple as riding style, maybe different tyre pressures and you've done some two up work and so on.

[pritch]

I had the Bridgestone repaired (vulcanised) but after seeing it show through on the week end i have lost all faith in the tyre now

That was rather brave of you.

A Z rated tyre is rated at continuous use over 150mph (from memory). What do you bet a repaired tyre is rated at?

Bearing in mind you are actually betting your life on it...

I was never happy with the grip in the wet the Bridgestones have on the new ZG

I wasn't happy with the wet grip of the 020s either. I had read brilliant things about them in the Brit mags but they do their testing on a track. And that is really very different to our roads...

Do you think i should replace the front as well to match for handling etc Remembering that they have only just done 5000 ks and still look like they have another 5000 ks left on them

Absolutely! If you really want to use that 5000 Ks buy a Bridgestone rear.

Buy a pair of Michelins and give the old front to someone who still has a Bridgestone rear.

[pritch]

And I would have imagined that modern tyre compounds were increasingly less sensitive to things like temperature, compared to tyres from days of yore on which most myths and legends are based?

Actually the opposite is probably the case.

In days of yore you basically bought a motorbike tyre of the correct size. That was pretty much it.

Now there are cross plys and radials; touring tyres, sports touring, and some of the main makers seem to be offering at least three grades of sports tyre. None of which touches on racing rubber, despite what the names say.

As the number of types proliferates so the performance envelope of each becomes narrower. (Particularly toward the sportier end?)

In Europe it is possible to access technical reps from the various factories. If such people exist in this country they are laying very low...

[riffer]

Dan - looking at that tyre I'm wondering about its load rating.

I run Avons on the RF - a Storm rear and a Viper front as the bike seems to push the front a bit unless you go for a sports front and doesn't seem to have enough power to spin up the rear in the dry with the Storm.

Both of my Avons are the "B" load rating, for heavy bikes. It could be possible the Dunlop is an "A" rated tyre, in which case the carcass will be too flexible for the weight of the bike, leading it to heat up too quickly.

And I'll throw my weight behind the Storm as well. A great tyre, wet or dry.

[banditrider]

Thanks all for the sugestions, I am going to enquire about the price and size of the Storms against the PR2,s and make my decision from there and let you know what i decide to do
You cant ever have too much info
Curious as to why my bike would be chewing out a back tyre and Bandits a front tyre when they are exactly the same bike, we even are within 50 ks of each other. What would do this? riding style maybe

Stuck my old Metzler (off the Bandit) on the front today. Battleax did 6,500kms and I wouldn't have been to happy to keep riding on it in the wet. Hopefully the Metzler will last as long as the current rear so I can change as a set. Rear currently doesn't look too bad.

May I suggest the Strada's.

I am using PR2's on the Bird atm, and compare with the Strada. They do not turn in as fast, as they require more lean before reaching the curved part of the tire. So you can say they are fat in the middle and hence more rubber to burn.

On my last set of Strada they lasted over 10'000k and still have a 1/3~1/4 tread left. I would think the PR2's would last longer, but the Strada's are more sporty and warm up quicker.

So Strada is next for me on the Bird.

Talked to Bruce at AFC today & he recommended I try the Strada's too. Might do that and see how they go. Gonna have the kwaka long term so I figure I'll get to try a few combinations...

[Hitcher]

As mentioned in another thread, I am disappointed with the performance of my front PR2. After nearly 11,000km the rear is still OK and looking good for a few more 1,000km yet, but the front is getting pretty shagged -- the first time ever I've had a matched pair where the front has given in before its mate behind. The front only has a few hundred km on it. The right-hand side is badly chiseled. And I am scrupulous about pressures.

I had already made the decision to go back to Storms at the next change. This latest occurrence merely reinforces that.