Fighting dirty

[R6_kid:Me]

One night i was at place called soldiers bay on the North Shore, was 18 or 19 at the time. There were loads of 16/17yr olds drinking and as you'd expect 90% of them couldnt handle their piss. My mate was talking to some young guy about what he's been up to and he says he'd on curfew (i thought he meant parents) but he meant , and i laughed.

That pissed him off, and after having a few more drinks he got angry about it and when i was talking to some random chick with my other mate this guy comes out of no where and starts punching me full strength in the back of the head... i thought that was pretty dirty. Became obvious i wouldnt be leaving without some sort of altercation, and seing that he was a bit smaller than me i took him for what he was worth. I got all of two punches in when three of his mates tackled me out of the way. My mate saw what was going on at this point and started laying into the little shit for starting it.

Then his three mates jumped off of me and started laying into my mate that had stood up for me. Just as i got up and went to try and help my mate they broke it off and made a run for it because by now my mates other friends (about 10 or so of them) had started running down to help.

So this little shit not only couldnt handle his piss, he started a fight he could finish himself by attacking me unprovoked, punching me in the back of the head, then got his mates in to back him up... i think thats pretty dirty. But i'm sure some others hvae better stories than that.

[ducatilover]

no need to fight "dirty" as every scum sucking nig nig and skin head have both an adams apple and a pair of lovely knee caps. i hate wainui for its nig nigs.

[Wolf]

Only "dirty" fighting tactic I can think of is attacking a person from behind.

With regard to self defence I've been told you do what it takes to get out of the situation as quickly as possible - and you don't let it become a "fight" - fights you can lose. So you take the SoB out as fast as possible and get the Hell out of Dodge.

On the school bus I used to get the old knuckle on top of the head from behind - hurts like hell - and I'd tun around and none of the 4 who could reach me easily (seat immediately behind me and the one behind that) would admit to doing it.

Put up with it for months until I got so fucked off I rose and spun, lashing out my arm in a backfist into the first face I encountered. It was a perfectly scientific movement, roll of hips and shoulders combined with straightening of arm - all nicely fuelled by adrenaline because I was fucked off immensely - my fist made a full 180-degree swing before I hit anything.

Fist smacked into this blokes jaw with a satisfying crack, his head whips sideways and he's got this fucking-great welt on the side of his face, my hand flows through as I go from sitting facing forwards to standing facing rearwards.

Ended up standing looking down at him (a rare feeling for the school short-arse, but he was sitting down at the time) and he let out this indignant "I didn't do it!"

I snarled "You fuckin' let it happen. Pass it on." And sat back down, facing the front, quite prepared to get hit again and was in the mood to go ballistic.

That much adrenaline in my system I didn't give a fuck any more.

Y'know, no one ever hit me on the head from behind after that day.

Odd, eh.

Spent the next dunno how long wondering why I hadn't done that the first time I was hit from behind - would've saved myself several unpleasant months...

[Wolf]

The mild fisticuffs between Mallard and Henare got me thinking - what is the most dispicable move you have heard / seen / used in a brawl?

As far as a brawl goes, anything goes. The only rule is to remain upright long enough to get the fuck to safety. If that entails grabbing a fistful of hair and yanking the bastard straight over backwards, kicking his nuts into his chin, poking him in the eyes, taking a good bite or whatever target presents itself or mashing his nose with your forehead, do it.

Do it and get out. Especially in a brawl - you don't want to be one of the poor fuckers on the floor. Stick around long enough, you will be.

That said, I've avoided most physical altercations - chatted amiably with a guy who'd been turfed out of a Wellington club and he had freely admitted to me he went out looking for a fight. I acted so nice he would've felt really stink picking a fight with me.

Another guy did the "what're you looking at" belligerent schtick and I just politely and honestly answered I was daydreaming and wasn't staring at him at all.

Another bloke got bolshy with me in a fish and chip shop and I just laughed at him, turned, wandered over to the arcade game and stood there with my back to him and his 2 mates. I wasn't stupid - I was watching the reflections of all three in the game's screen and was ready to turn (see earlier post) if they tried anything. When you and your two mates are around the six-foot-and-solid mark and a 5'7" scrawny geek laughs at you and turns his back on you, it can apparently be quite disconcerting. They left fairly quickly.

What they didn't realise was that I was shitting myself and so wired on adrenaline that I could hear my own heartbeat.

[P38]

Few years back a guy jumped me in a carpark and being the kinda chap I am I engauged and despatched him with one or two well placed thumps.
What I didn't know at the time was he had four or five more mates who all stepped up at once and although I dont mind a few fisty cuffs I was getting a beating here.
So what else could I do but drop to the ground and roll under a nearby landrover.
I was pretty safe under there, and there wasnt much they could do until one guy thought it was a good idea to put the boot in.
First kick grazed me a bit which musta pissed him off cos the second kick he put a lot more effort into it and thats when there was an almighty crack and things went very quiet.
Yep he snapped his leg so bad his bone was sticking outta his leg. Was pretty gruesome too.
That kinda took the fight outta all of us.
I alway liked Landrovers after that.
Anyway the Cops and Ambos turned up and that was basically that.
The Blokes leg healed ok after some time so all was good there.

LOL still it's funny looking back on stuff like that now.

[P38]

Oh an I just remembered I got Bluey from the Albert Hotel in the late 80's for clapping and shaking a mates hand.

Now that was dirty!!!!!

The publican didn't take kindly to my mate punching out a couple of Mongy Prospects in the public bar.

Gave him a Bluey for fighting and me one for congratulating him.

It was probally for the best cos it was a shit bar anyway.

[Headbanger]

Forget the concept of fighting dirty, Fight to win.

And if shits bad and all you do is create an opening to get the fuck outta there, Thats a win. You get to live.

Presuming the other guy won't kill you will get you...uh....killed.

Many years ago me and another guy had a meaningless petty conflict which ended in a confrontation, no sweat at all, Been there before, I can take a punch and throw a few.

30 seconds later I had my throat slit , a knife plunged into my chest, and then both knives sunk into my back after I turned around to get out of there.....

[MaxB]

My missus will be horrified at my posting this but she just won a gold and 2 silver medals at the NZ champs for her martial art.

When she explains the set moves and combinations it seems like fighting dirty but it based on a life and death situation where the winner gets to live. The moves are repeated thousands of times until the competitor executes them without thinking and without hesitation. Nearly everything they do might be considered as dirty but it is about survival and defence. Just one example is where the testicles are torn from the body and handed back to the attacker. I guess the shock, pain and crippling effect gives the defender the chance to escape.

She tells me the best thing about her sport as a woman is not to have to live in fear all the time.

[ducatilover]

. Just one example is where the testicles are torn from the body and handed back to the attacker. I guess the shock, pain and crippling effect gives the defender the chance to escape.

same thing is taught in kyokushin. quite an amusing thing to the younger people that start...

[BIGBOSSMAN]

If the shit hits the fan you'll be amazed at what you can do to someone in the quest for self preservation. There are no limits when your life is on the line.

[Wolf]

When she explains the set moves and combinations it seems like fighting dirty but it based on a life and death situation where the winner gets to live. The moves are repeated thousands of times until the competitor executes them without thinking and without hesitation. Nearly everything they do might be considered as dirty but it is about survival and defence. Just one example is where the testicles are torn from the body and handed back to the attacker.

The kata.

A mate of mine was explaining the kata and showed one that could do "this, this and this" - all pretty much "knock a guy down, blah blah" - as a response to a particular attack. That same sequence of actions - defending against a different attack - can actually be used to tear a person to bits, as in neck snapped.

They train over and over to follow through with the actions and the outcome is automatic - one difference in where the initial hostile strike begins and the end result differs dramatically.

Make this attack, you wind up on the floor in extreme pain. Make a different attack, you never get to feel anything again.

I've done a bit of Judo and Aikido and am familiar with the drilling to the point of being automatic - break falls, mainly. I'm also mindful that even something perceived to be a "soft art" like Aikido is devastating - at white belt level I was being taught techniques to dislocate limbs and leave the opponent incapacitated.

I'd love to learn a shortened form of Aikido. We learned so many different techniques for dealing with the same grabs, holds and strikes. What I'd like to do is learn one defence against each possible attack and drill those over and over until such time as I'm programmed to do them without fail - like I now "instinctively" fall properly. Much better than having to think about which of the techniques for dealing with a right cross I most want to use when the damned thing is already winging its way to my face.

You need all the time to move you can get from the instant their body language telegraphs their intent. Under a serious attack you're going to have enough work to get your block in place as it is, without having to stop and make a choice of which technique to use.

That's where kata are downright devastating. You don't think, you take the incoming strike and deal with it on autopilot.

[Teflon]

When she explains the set moves and combinations.

Those same set moves will most likely get you hurt on the street..

Most martial arts are useless on the street, like Tai kwon do, karate etc.. unlike boxing, tai kickboxing where youre constantly sparing, bag work..

I've seen so many martial artists get beatings on the street, because they have no timing.. and can't take a hit.

Different world out there, nothings dirty.. good luck

[Pancakes]

I used to run "At risk youth" programmes for the police and was taking a group out to do the Round the Mountain track. We were taking at an easy pace and two days in one of the kids lost his heroin stash! He had been given two an uncle when he was only a few weeks old who injected him to make him stop crying and had used ever since. We didn't know he was a user until the withdrawls kicked in. If there hadn't been two SAS guys helping also we would have been dead I'm sure of it. They kept him away from us and from cliffs etc just battling for hours until an army helicopter came to get him. Was an eye opener for me and I'd seen lots of addicts before.

[MaxB]

Those same set moves will most likely get you hurt on the street..

Most martial arts are useless on the street, like Tai kwon do, karate etc.. unlike boxing, tai kickboxing where youre constantly sparing, bag work..

I've seen so many martial artists get beatings on the street, because they have no timing.. and can't take a hit.

Different world out there, nothings dirty.. good luck

The thread is about fighting dirty. I was stating that to observers some martial arts moves might seem dirty.

As for the statement that most martial arts are useless on the street. Mate, that’s a hell of a generalisation. If you saw people taking a beating on the street then I would suggest that they were not true martial artists. Especially if they started it. It is about defence not offence.

In most martial arts the 90-9-1 rule applies. That is, at any one time only 9% will have graded to higher grades and only 1% will be at the elite level. Very few people have what it takes to get to the top; the dedication, the pain, the mental torture, sacrifice, broken bones and the operations. If a guy boasts and tells you he is a black belt he probably isn't. OTOH by the time you find out the skill level of someone you are attacking (a karate ka for example) it will be too late for you.

As for sparring, my missus puts in about 10 hrs per week on the dojo and as much off it. Full punches and kicks are used. We have various punch bags and sparring equipment at home including assorted (secured) weaponry. This is excluding regular training.

I would suggest that once a certain level is reached any fighter will have developed the timing and pain tolerence whatever the technique.

[ducatilover]

Those same set moves will most likely get you hurt on the street..

Most martial arts are useless on the street, like Tai kwon do, karate etc.. unlike boxing, tai kickboxing where youre constantly sparing, bag work..

I've seen so many martial artists get beatings on the street, because they have no timing.. and can't take a hit.

Different world out there, nothings dirty.. good luck

not always true.
if two people are equally trained in two different styles chances are the person with the deeper instinct to kill or leave the "opponent" defenseless will be the person walking away. i have a small amount of experience in both kyokushin kaikan [green with brown tip] and mauy thai [kinda casual] and it really comes down to who wants the other guy dead more.