Handling V Power - you chose

[slowpoke]

I've been there. Bike one 120hp 160kg average handling. Bike 2 70hp, 105kg, better handling. Difference is over 8 seconds at a supposed HP track....to Bike 2 - the least powerful bike I've raced in recent history.

The power to weight ratios's are quite similar 0.75hp/kg and 0.68hp/hp so you'd expect the better handling and braking capabilities of the much lighter bike to give it a big advantage.

[twinshock750]

Ignore the power to weight as the rider plays a big effect on the low power low weight bike. Plus The big HP bike honks, believe me....its has 40+km/h on the low power bike as you get into drag issues as well.

ie to double the squeed you need square (ie double x double) of the power...

Which reinforces the aspect of within the bounds of reality, handling over power...

[avgas]

"How can you say that power can corrupt a person....you haven't had enough to know what its like"

Here is a lovely sticker for bike 1 i made.

But just as a ball park here - does bike 2 have more torque, or the same as that makes a big difference to the equation.

[DEATH_INC.]

Power rules.....give my old shitta another 70 hp and see if ya can beat me round minefeild.....

[avgas]

Power rules.....give my old shitta another 70 hp and see if ya can beat me round minefeild.....

I thought ya ZX was pushing 200hp by now?

[roogazza]

Looking at this pole, I was thinking , is this not reflective of a more modern approach and the age of your average Kiwibiker ?????
I'm still in the dark ages where you just rode around stuff, give me the power , I'll figure the rest !!!
Gaz.

[GSVR]

Looking at this pole, I was thinking , is this not reflective of a more modern approach and the age of your average Kiwibiker ?????
I'm still in the dark ages where you just rode around stuff, give me the power , I'll figure the rest !!!
Gaz.

I think I'm actually beginning to understand the concept of going faster on a slower bike.

Ducati 749s are allowed to race in Supersport but they are not competitive because although they have plenty of power they handle like shit and the brakes are no good.

Also Craig Sherriffs 600 can beat Andrew Strouds 1000 around Wangas because it handles heaps better. Strouds a friggin legend just to be able to keep up. What happends at Paeroa?

250GP bikes are not allowed in F3 because their engines don't handle.

[codgyoleracer]

Exactly, But there are very few Crosby's around, and were his bikes really that bad ? He certainly made them look wild .( now there is a thread start, "who is the Crosby of today," ? I can't think of one ! ) Gaz.

The diffference seems to be that sportsbikes bikes nowdays do generally handle very very well indeed "out of the box" compared to the past & the optimisation of available tyre grip is very high (compared to the old days). To get a modern bike as bent in the middle as the great Graeme Crosby used to get his - you would suspect that the modern bike had a fault (because they just dont "bend in the middle" that much anymore).
To put it another way - Graeme had the skill to overide the bike design yet still utilise the avialable tyre grip & still stay on board the thing. Todays bikes utilise the available grip to a much higher level + on top of that bike tyres have a way higher grip level than in Croz's days & so everyone (even an average Joe Blow like me goes faster & in much more control)
Hope thats not to confusing for ya ?

[roogazza]

Cheers Codgy,
Modern stuff would probably scare the shit out of me , I'd be going so bloody fast before the bike would start getting busy. The old brain wouldn't keep up.
I sit there like a 'sack of spuds' dragging the rear brake, so they probably wouldn't suit me.
So , anyway , it appears everyone is in favour of good handling over HP which is good. ( I suppose ??) Gaz.

[Drew]

I think I'm actually beginning to understand the concept of going faster on a slower bike.

Ducati 749s are allowed to race in Supersport but they are not competitive because although they have plenty of power they handle like shit and the brakes are no good.

Also Craig Sherriffs 600 can beat Andrew Strouds 1000 around Wangas because it handles heaps better. Strouds a friggin legend just to be able to keep up. What happends at Paeroa?

250GP bikes are not allowed in F3 because their engines don't handle.

Are you on something less than legal Garry? That's backwards bro. The 749s makes even less power than the R's we have, but make some ground back up on 600's in handling. They have full ohlins, and have adjustable steering head and other goodies. The s is infact a 748cc engine. The brakes are very good on them too.

Wanganui is a useless comparison for the purpose of this thread, as it is not a track, or even a decent twisty road, it's a series of friggin intersections in the middle of a city.