Power vs Handling (another biased poll)

[GSVR]

Two brand spanking SV650s identical in every way. Brakes, Power, Weight. For the sake of this poll we will assume riders are of the same weight and using the same tyres. The race to see which bike is quicker will be around the Manfeild long track which favours a better handling bike over one with more power.

Owner of the first bike (Glen Williams) takes his to Robert Taylor and gets the works no expense spared suspension without changing the forks for GSXR ones. So its a TTX shock and racetec emulators and Ohlins springs. All set up taking into account
the riders weight. Robert has done a few of these now and reacons this is the best yet and apart from putting in a GSXR front can't get any better! Its also had a steering dampner fitted to further help the handling.
The Williams bike weighs 172kg (Suzuki lied about the weight) and hes been on the pies and chocotate and now weighs 75kg and is making 72HP (Put a standard SV on a dyno and his is about what they make)

Owner of the second bike (Drew Mair) removes his motor and sends it to Ray Clee instructing him that he wants as much reliable horsepower as Ray can get from the motor. While the motors away Drew being the mechanically talented soul he is builds some light subframes and removes as much weight from the bike as a man with his talents can. The motor comes back and is making an incredible 8 more ponys. Drew has managed to pull 15 kgs off the bike (He's not as talented as I thought)
The Mair bike weighs 155kg plus 75kg for the rider ( Vicsters had him on a strict diet) and is making a wooping 80HP its a bit of a handful doing a bit bit of a headshake coming onto the front straight almost every lap (front wheel may be a bit out of balance). Suspension is bog standard.



Both bikes line up on the start finish in perfect conditions having had a whole days practice to get used to the bikes. Both riders are feeling like they could beat Valentino. Both bikes have identical brakes and pads.

[HDTboy]

Glen beats Drew every time.

What about if Frosty went and put down lap times for each bike? Then there would be no bias for rider skill and preference.

[Patch]

Whose Frosty??

[FROSTY:Me]

What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

[codgyoleracer]

The One lap race goes like this:
Drew takes full advantage of his lighter weight & higher horsepower machine & gets the jump of the line at Manfield. At the same moment another silver K3 SV650 is spotted starting at the pitlane track entrance & tipping into the first corner (its Gary H, pulling a sneaky on the boys). Gary leades into the esses with drew 100m behind & Glen still incredibly trailing another 15 behind that after being sidetracked by drews missus standing on the outside of turn one & flashing him. Gary makes a hash of the infield left hander & Drew runs to far to the inside & looses the front on the white line. Fortunatly he is so full of pure & unadulterated talent (just like his brother) he manages to catch it on his knee for about a 20ft front end slidee. Williams sneaks up another 5mtrs on him. Gary H enters the hairpin but cant carry the corner speed because he's got both tyres fitted backwards (to save a few bucks). Drew & Williams get within 25mtrs of him. The sheer power of the Drew bike now takes control & he pulls most of this gap back on Gary by Higgins. The sly fox Williams has managed to catch Drews slipstream & Drew unbeknown has dragged Glens old arse along with him up the same straight. Drew goes for the big "up the inside pass" on Gary H into Higgins, but screws it up - because his mostly stock front forks bottom out & he skips past Gary & runs wide. (whilst up at the top of the corner - he takes the opportunity to check the trench that Jimmy dug there a few months ago in the dirt). Gary H, see's this as his opportunity & is already reading the headlines in the paper about his big win. The codgy old fart Williams is yet to make a mistake though & waits (for what seems an eternity) for Gary H to get on the gas (& get out of the way through Higgins) & then passes him easily on the inside exiting Higgins. (this is due to the sheer drive provided by the best god-damm shock absorber ever made in the entire known universe - The Trex Ohlins of course & has ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with rider abilty). In the meantime Drews wide line has actually allowed him to run a very quick high exit line & he blows by Gary H with smoke pouring of the rear tyre , whilst being sideways & on one wheel, + taking time to flick GaryH the bird.
Williams has a 7 mtr lead out of higgins over Drew - whilst Gary with tears in his eyes "does a Biaggi" & starts looking down at his machine (hoping to find a fault or excuse for later on).
Drew's stonking engine rails him up behind Williams & he passes him on the outside into the final sweeper, its the type of move made by the young & exuberant - however it sticks & he cuts back across the front wheel of Williams with inches to spare. (or so he thinks.....) . Williams saw the move early enough to shut the gas & run himself up a little wider in the corner & go for the supreme drive out of the corner. (once again taking advantage of the best god-damm rear shock absorber made in the entire univ.........that only spoilt rich fucks can afford.) Drew has to pay the price for his wide entry & starts to run wide from the apex & thus limits his ability to put down his prodigious horsepower (& talent) to the ground. Williams is apexing later & has it pinned to the stops. Williams sneaks the lead by a bike length on the exit & runs "un-intentionaly wide" to screw up Drews exit line, - but Drew's seen these sneaky tricks from Williams before & stays on the gas whilst riding the white line on the edge of the track with gay abandon. Drews 80hp is now paying back bigtime & he's hauling up on williams at a great rate of knots, The finish line looms & ....................................


The end of this story will be provided at some later date.

[skelstar]

I think Drew has already proved what he can do on a standard bike (with Ohlins rear and front missing some suss parts) against Glen. I thought you were there too Garry?

[GSVR]

Glen beats Drew every time.

He didn't beat him in the Cliffhanger Hillclimb

Whose Frosty??

I think he mans Crusty (Australian Superbike rider)

What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

Robert Taylor wont be sending you any comission. Know anyone that wants a GSXR shock?

[GSVR]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1271521
The end of this story will be provided at some later date.[/QUOTE]

The pretend race is actually a 10 lapper around the full circuit.

Seems people might be voting on the fact your riding the handling bike and ignoring the fact it actually doesn't handle that well as its carrying round a sack of spuds and accelerates like golden syrup from a tin in winter.

[skelstar]

BTW - I chose Mair bike, but not because of the big power, but because it was his first meeting on a bike he hadn't ridden before.

[Deano]

He didn't beat him in the Cliffhanger Hillclimb

Glen wasn't there so the jury is out on that one..........

Seems people might be voting on the fact your riding the handling bike and ignoring the fact it actually doesn't handle that well as its carrying round a sack of spuds and accelerates like golden syrup from a tin in winter.

Ummm, I might respectfully suggest that Drew weighs more than Glen.....

BTW - I chose Mair bike, but not because of the big power,

I should hope not - I think Glen has shown that HP is not the be all and end all. (Greymouth street races)

[koba]

What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

Said like a man who runs trackdays

[GSVR]

Glen wasn't there so the jury is out on that one..........

Ummm, I might respectfully suggest that Drew weighs more than Glen.....

I should hope not - I think Glen has shown that HP is not the be all and end all. (Greymouth street races)

1/ Sorry HDTboy was right Glen beats Drew every time.
2/ Did you read the post. For the sake of this poll they both weigh 75kg. But Drew is on a much lighter bike with a wooping 8 more horses.
3/He also won the F2 race in the first round of the Vic series.

I'm not trying to point out that handling doesn't matter I'm saying that having a bit more power than the opposition will have the same effect.

Example: Stoner in Round1 of this years MGP at Quatar. Rossi was killing him around the corners and Stoner just blew past him on the straights and went on to win easy.

[codgyoleracer]

Example: Stoner in Round1 of this years MGP at Quatar. Rossi was killing him around the corners and Stoner just blew past him on the straights and went on to win easy.

My best guess on the Stoner/Ducati advantage is that it is mostley down to the superior traction control electrickery & Bridgestone tyre grip on corner exit. The momentum from this early gain in the corner exit speed & the resultant gains down the straight were clear to see.
A good example of this in New Zealand is "castrol corner" onto the backstraight at Pukekohe - where a 2kph increase in exit speed - results in a 10kph higher top speed on the same HP bike(this is on a 600).
Interesting aye !

[GSVR]

My best guess on the Stoner/Ducati advantage is that it is mostley down to the superior traction control electrickery & Bridgestone tyre grip on corner exit. The momentum from this early gain in the corner exit speed & the resultant gains down the straight were clear to see.
A good example of this in New Zealand is "castrol corner" onto the backstraight at Pukekohe - where a 2kph increase in exit speed - results in a 10kph higher top speed on the same HP bike(this is on a 600).
Interesting aye !

Ok maybe not the best example then. I was always having trouble with the back wheel on the SV lighting up coming out of the corners so the massive HP I had I couldn't put down on the track also.

Drew would have the same issue getting drive out of corners with his bike?

[codgyoleracer]

Hi Gary
That woul dbe because you were always running those dodgy second hand tyres...........Who was it that was giving them to you ?, Oh Yeah - that was me......