Power vs Handling (another biased poll)

[cowpoos]

An interesting sidebar to this thread is that we have now built in excess of 20 TTX36 for SV650s , on the strength of Glens request to custom build one in the first place. I am not aware of any other market in the world that uses these for racing SV650s, ( they dont exist in TTX format ex Ohlins for that model ) Having said all that we have a really good spec for the ''conventional '' Ohlins listing or donor Ohlins shocks from GSXRs etc, better again with the installation of a top out spring for more rear end stability under braking. Riders such as Rob Berrington Smith and Dean Bentley have been going well on the latest renditions of internal valving settings.
In the States it will be predominantly Penske that is used and they do a few things in their designs that are quite clever. Does anyone know what is used in other markets that race SV650s?
Development on the emulators has gone about as far as it can go and they definitely work a lot better if you ditch the stock damper rods and replace them with Traxxion rods. These rods are actually straight and are tighter toleranced so that there is rather less uncontrolled bleed. Its awful to look down a lot of forks and see just how badly aligned many damper rods are.

Canada race SV 650's

I wonder if you could cram a 20mm traxxion cartridge inside a sv 650 fork?? with a little clever modification?

[Pussy]

I wonder if you could cram a 20mm traxxion cartridge inside a sv 650 fork?? with a little clever modification?

It's been done.... even here in NZ!
Watch this space, Poos..... seen another neat little SV mod in the making.....

[Drew]

Perhaps apt timing for the dredge Poos, since I'm on an SV again now. It has a standard motor that has done 70,000 k's, and all the suspension done up short of sticking in the TTX.

[codgyoleracer]

An interesting sidebar to this thread is that we have now built in excess of 20 TTX36 for SV650s , on the strength of Glens request to custom build one in the first place. I am not aware of any other market in the world that uses these for racing SV650s, ( they dont exist in TTX format ex Ohlins for that model ) Having said all that we have a really good spec for the ''conventional '' Ohlins listing or donor Ohlins shocks from GSXRs etc, better again with the installation of a top out spring for more rear end stability under braking. Riders such as Rob Berrington Smith and Dean Bentley have been going well on the latest renditions of internal valving settings.
In the States it will be predominantly Penske that is used and they do a few things in their designs that are quite clever. Does anyone know what is used in other markets that race SV650s?
Development on the emulators has gone about as far as it can go and they definitely work a lot better if you ditch the stock damper rods and replace them with Traxxion rods. These rods are actually straight and are tighter toleranced so that there is rather less uncontrolled bleed. Its awful to look down a lot of forks and see just how badly aligned many damper rods are.

Lotsa differnet stuff is banged into the back of the SV's overseas Rob, - But Ohlins, Penske , WP tend to dominate.
The TTX was a step forward in bike control for the SV , but oddly enough the old 46 series Ohlins (if it was dialled in right) was still very very good. It was just a little harder to find "the zone" on the 46 series for any given track/condition.
IMO , the TTX is more forgiving 'generally' in this respect and thus has stayed on my F3 bike pretty much ever since it went in.
For folks building any trick SV's there might be some worthwhile gains in playing with linkage ratios to optimise the rear absorber performance, certain tracks appear to highlight this and its tricky for (any) absorber to work in those conditions.
Comments Rob ?

[cowpoos]

Perhaps apt timing for the dredge Poos, since I'm on an SV again now. It has a standard motor that has done 70,000 k's, and all the suspension done up short of sticking in the TTX.

To behonest...I had this thread saved in my favorites...and I couldn't remember wy till I clicked on it....it was where my signature came from

[Robert Taylor]

Lotsa differnet stuff is banged into the back of the SV's overseas Rob, - But Ohlins, Penske , WP tend to dominate.
The TTX was a step forward in bike control for the SV , but oddly enough the old 46 series Ohlins (if it was dialled in right) was still very very good. It was just a little harder to find "the zone" on the 46 series for any given track/condition.
IMO , the TTX is more forgiving 'generally' in this respect and thus has stayed on my F3 bike pretty much ever since it went in.
For folks building any trick SV's there might be some worthwhile gains in playing with linkage ratios to optimise the rear absorber performance, certain tracks appear to highlight this and its tricky for (any) absorber to work in those conditions.
Comments Rob ?

We have actually never mapped the link curve on the SVs and they seem to like a fairly agressive valving spec on compression and lots of ride height in the rear, in part to stop too much acceleration squat but also to ''decommuterise'' the lazy steering.

Yes indeed the old 46PRCL /PRX still works very well on those as long as apples fpr apples they have a top out spring and the valving is very specific , in that instance we now have a very well developed spec for those older models of shock.

And yes its a little more time consuming to revalve ( etc ) the old 46mm shocks compared to the TTX36. We can revalve these in as little as 10 mins but realistically the old 46mm ones 20 mins if you really go for it and have everything ready , more like 30-40 minutes inclusive of a PROPER bleed job. That includes time to allow the bubbles to disperse out of the oil, that dosent happen instantly, unless you are happily sloppy in your work. Show me the man who says he can do it in 15 to 20 mins ( and do a PROPER job) and Ill walk on water as well.

But apples for apples the TTX36 is the better weapon in your armoury in terms of overall performance and ease of setting changes.

We do have some more refined valving specs and also some new and better pistons that we successfully developed with Geoff Booth and Terry Fitz over the season, available to CKT customers. We pretty much used two alternate valving specs and 3 spring rates all season to optimise as much as possible.

For god knows whatever perverse or self serving reasons I get criticised by some for forever having shocks and fork cartridges apart, in fact a great part of the reason why is we are forever trying new settings and also new stuff that the factory sends us. We also race with new stuff before anyone else in the world and one example was NIX30 front fork kits.

The settings were less than ideal for our low grip bumpy tracks when we got them but we relentlessly worked on them andconsequently have a base setting that works very very well. Andrew Stroud raced on NIX25s up to and including the last South Island round. He was very very happy with them and the results confirmed that. We then installed well tested / developed NIX30 in his forks and he immediately said they were better again and raced on them at Manfield and HD.

I have been told that there is some negative feedback on overseas forums about NIX30 ( although there is much more very positive feedback generally ) This sort of thing always happens when they are sold by outlets and there is zero trackside backup to optimise, especially in the States and many European countries. Trackside backup is neccessary to unlock the full potential of any suspension units.

[Peter Smith]

A good handling bike will do quicker lap times, but a more powerful bike is hard to pass if it gets in front. And you'd need to have a good gap once past to prevent him sneaking past again on the straights.

Go GLEN!!!!!

[suzuki21]

A good handling bike will do quicker lap times, but a more powerful bike is hard to pass if it gets in front. And you'd need to have a good gap once past to prevent him sneaking past again on the straights.

Go GLEN!!!!!

I agree Peter, remember the v-twin Aprillia gp bike? Done fast qualifying times but come race time the 500's were holding it up in corners and puffing it on the straights, it couldnt quite get close enough for out braking.

[scracha]

Drew goes balls out, pulls a wheelie until the first corner and backs it in blocking Glens bike. He maintains his lead whilst powersliding through turn two. Glen being the wise old fox follows right up his chuff until he gets the chance to pounce. Drew then :-

a) kills the bike by turn 4
b) lowsides on the final turn and comes in blaming his forks
c) coasts to the side of the track before turn 4 complaining of a hangover
d) highsides so badly out of higgins it flies over the tyre wall but Drew manages to remount and wobble back into the pits to a huge cheer.
e) has brake failure at the end of the back straight
f) continues to whip his ass

Oh...can we have a vote?

Fuck...there's so many possibilities but I could never see Drew simply setting for 2nd.

[FROSTY:Me]

Of course all of this is happening well BEHIND the Ozzie 450 carefully prepped to suit the conditions and ridden by a certain young wellytown racer.

[scracha]

Of course all of this is happening well BEHIND the Ozzie 450 carefully prepped to suit the conditions and ridden by a certain young wellytown racer.

Oh shit. I forgot
g) they get black flagged and booted from the meeting for burgling pro-twins instead of entering F3.