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Thread: The Pace - Group Riding. Part 1 & 2

  1. #31
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    A great read.

    Personally, I think it should have been posted where it would receive wider viewing. I bet there's too many on this site that believe they have no need to read about "Survival Skills".

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by katman View Post
    A great read.

    Personally, I think it should have been posted where it would receive wider viewing. I bet there's too many on this site that believe they have no need to read about "Survival Skills".
    Only the ones that have no interest in survival or skills. Actually seems to be a growing group that might fit into that category.
    I'm selling my new riding gear!! Only worn a few times get a deal Kiwibikers!!
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...53#post1414653

  3. #33
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    I agree that this is a great read! But what gets my goat, is those of you that perceive that it is your god given right to turn this into an US vs THEM discussion.I,m sure the original posters put this up as a potentially great learning tool.(Good job there).
    Just because I choose to ride fast,does not mean I have no interest in safety or survival skills.
    It's all fun n games till the MODS turn up!!!!

  4. #34
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    Riding in groups

    Hi all this is my first post I have been on tow of the ride in Auckland so some of you I hade the pleaser in meeting and riding with. As this rides was intended for 250CC but open to all it was good to see large number of riders. I did enjoy both outings and pleased on the manner that this rides was handled by all involved.

    As we know if you're looking for an easy way to develop and improve your riding and gain more experience, then riding in a group can seem like the ideal opportunity. Many motorcyclists regularly ride in groups either on a long tour or just a quick blast through some country roads. It can however, be a recipe for disaster. So if you new to riding in groups it is a good idea to let the ride organiser know and perhaps ask if some one will be a mentor to u on the ride. If find a generous mentor he/her may ask you to follow him/her or he/her will follow you and at the first stop give you feed back on your riding, it may be good or bad criticism but it will be good so do take note it for your best interest.

    Each year many motorcyclists are injured some seriously, as a result of a group ride gone wrong. The most common problem encountered by group riders is getting separated, so many will take unnecessary risks just to keep up with the pack. The key problem is that while the rider at the front is setting a reasonable pace, the guy at the back has to go well in to triple figures to keep with the group. Often as a result of getting separated at traffic lights or simply not being able to go for the same overtake that everyone else was able to manage. There are however, some simple tips that can make your group ride a lot safer and more enjoyable.
    There are a number of methods that are used by bikers which range from cruising at 80 KMH in a huge pack (hells angels style) to the marker system used by advanced riding groups like the IAM.

    The method you choose to use, should allow group members to ride at their own pace and arrive at the destination in one piece.

    FOLLOW THE LEADER
    One rider leads and sets the pace the rider behind him keeps him in view and so on right down to the guy at the back. This is often the default approach, but while it can result in a closely bunched group, the riders at the back will have to ride much faster than the leaders, just to keep up. This can cause a chain reaction of increased speed and potentially dangerous riding, the further down the group you go.
    EVERYONE NAVIGATE
    This is pretty simple, but rarely practical. Basically every rider in the group is required to know exactly where you are going and where and when all the rendezvous points are. While it can work well, in the event of a brake down the group could find themselves back tracking a long way to find a stranded rider. It is also very easy to get separated and doesn't work for larger groups.
    WATCH MY REAR
    A far better solution than the previous two, each rider is responsible for the rider behind them, by ensuring that they are always visible in their rear view mirror. In this case it is the rider at the back who sets the pace and if the group gets separated, the pace will slow to an eventual stop. This method works well, but doesn't allow for overtakes and can go wrong if another bike not in the group comes in to view and gets mistaken as part of the group. However, with an agreed running order and careful rear observation this method works well for small groups.
    MARKING SYSTEM (This system was used on the rides I a tended)
    This is popular with groups going on long rides and allows overtaking within the group without upsetting the group. Understanding the system is important, as every rider needs to do their part to avoid anyone getting lost. One leader is responsible for navigating the route, at every junction, the rider immediately behind, marks the junction. All other riders pass the marker except the back marker who signals that he/she is the last in the group. The marker than re-joins the group 2nd from the back. This approach involves all the group and as the marker gets rotated front to back. It also allows riders to overtake other riders without confusing the group. The method works providing that everyone makes clear, safe markings and doesn't forget they are in the No.2 position, when it is their turn to mark. It can be difficult to find the best place to mark, particularly right hand turns etc. Often the safest place to stop is by the road sign itself and point in the direction. This means everyone has plenty of time to prepare for the turn. It is also vital that markers do not leave their post until they are sure the back marker has come through. In the event of a brake down the back marker mast stop and assist, the lead rider will then eventually run out of markers and stop. This method can fail if another biker (not in the group) stops next to a junction and leaves before the back marker comes through (thus falsely directing some of the group off. Motorway exits and the hard shoulder are dangerous places to stop (and illegal unless in an emergency). If your ride includes sections of Motorways, you will need to regroup before and after the ride. It is also useful to keep the motorway speed down as well as encouraging everyone to stay together.
    MAKING IT ALL WORK
    If you are going to assign any sort of leader or back marker role, its useful if they are easily recognisable. Wearing a high visibility vest can help as will exchanging mobile phone numbers before you set off. Conversely, if you don't want to be back marker, then don't turn up on a yellow gold wing. It also goes without saying, that the leader should have a clear understanding of the route and the group should generally keep in sight of everyone particularly on motorways, where it can be difficult to mark exits.
    Another common problem with group riding is allowing the faster riders to enjoy their ride, without pushing the slower riders to ride beyond their ability. Most fast bike riders will agree that the real challenge of motorcycling is taking a corner well, anyone can blast down a straight road flat out with little skill. So by asking the faster riders to keep to the speed limits on the straights, but allow corners to be fair game, you'll set a pace that should be within the grasp of most riders. Apart from prolonging the life of everyone's licence you'll also help to improve public perception of motorcyclist, by refraining from the loony ‘head down wheel up’ behaviour that we seem to all get associated with.
    If you're the unlucky one who's been tasked with running a ride then you'll also be the one getting the blame if it all goes wrong. Its important to get the planning done in advance, so that when you're on the ride, you can relax in the knowledge that it's all going well. This check list may help:
    Plan and agree rendezvous points and times that can easily be made by the entire group to allow for breaks and regrouping. Consider the range of both the rider and bikes, so that the distance is far less than the range of the thirstiest bike.
    Exchange mobile phone numbers of everyone who has them and ensure that you switch yours on, when you stop.
    Give a briefing for the whole trip at the start and a more detailed one for each leg of the journey.
    Tell people about any known hazards along the way and the locations of service stations for fuel stops if required.
    If there is going to be a running order ensure everyone knows where they are supposed to be and who is in front and behind.
    If you have new members or inexperienced riders, it's handy to have them somewhere in the middle, until they get a feel for the group.
    It may also help to draw a small map, with all the essential details and contact numbers.
    Mobile phones are fine when you've stopped, but are not suitable for use on the move. Therefore many groups use simple signals to communicate, normally the headlight. As most riders, ride with dipped beams even in daylight, it can be easy just to switch them off to indicated that you want to stop. If you’re in a larger group, then this signal should be relayed up the group until the leader finds a safe placed to stop. This can avoid the need to flash and sound your horn, hoping to attract attention, only to find they weren't looking behind at that particular moment.

    Most of this information is from the inter net so pleas read and remember you never to old to lean something new.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Most of this information is from the inter net so pleas read and remember you never to old to lean something new.
    Like using how to use this site's SEARCH facility...
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Like using how to use this site's SEARCH facility...
    actualy flash is a trained british I.A.M. instructer and activly uses thease skills when he's riing


    as for him using the copy paste method thats only because he has a typing speed of 5 words a minute.
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  7. #37
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    Hi all, I'm new here so had to say something. The Pace describes my riding to a tee but I have a different spin on it. My total focus when riding is observation.I put myself where I can see furthest ahead, achieving the same flow & quick pace as a consequence. I was taught that you must ALWAYS be able to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear.I was also taught to treat the centre line as a brick wall. Don't cross it! The more space you give yourself the quicker you can safely ride.

  8. #38
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    Smile

    Mighty helpful, once I realised it was written for drivers on the right-hand side of the road! Maybe a note at the beginning could have saved at least some puzzlement from we left-hand riders.

  9. #39
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    good read there, helpful for the newbies... ill change my attitude.. lol

  10. #40
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    Being patient and prepared to ride slower than you might usually is also part of a group ride sometimes. For me, I like everyone to be happy with the ride and feel that at the end of it they've enjoyed themselves. (Yeah, depends on how many - I'm talking about a small group of no more that 6).

    If I'm riding with others who travel more slowly because they're on their L or just are not as confident then I will sit at their pace. If I want a fast ride (well, my idea of fast....) then I go on my own. The enjoyment factor of a group ride is often in the social aspect of it for me - if it turns into a dick measuring contest then I have no interest. (a, because I don't have a dick, and b because risk taking starts to escalate and you end up doing stupid shit that can so easily lead to a bad place).
    I lahk to moove eet moove eet...

    Katman to steveb64
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I'd hate to ever have to admit that my arse had been owned by a Princess.

  11. #41
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    Better to the late Mr Smith than the late Mr Smith

  12. #42
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    26th October 2010 - 20:20
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    My pace

    Have been riding a lot recently in groups and i have been enjoying it mostly from the middle. I have seen some guys go at cracking paces down the straights at an easy 160, 200 plus km/hrs and so I'll tuck into the left, but gawd, I would hate to see what would happen if one bike suddenly comes off line as the speedsters overtake past them. You spend lots of time flicking back to rear mirrors to check these bikes out then the riders upfront. To me thats not ideal.
    But I feel a sense of great satisfaction when I can evaluate after each stop, how well I take the corners, not how fast I take a straight. I try to think how I might step up to smoother riding, rather than speed..

  13. #43
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    Great thread, very useful.

    Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them.

  14. #44
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    Nick (the author of The Pace) as 2 AMA #1 plates and is one intense fellow. He's one of those super high energy dudes and absolutely LOVES everything motorcycles. If anyone here has the financial ability to take his school (he's the lead instructor along with Kenny Hill) then do it. It is pricey, but AWESOME..... they do courses at Miller Motorsports Park (Salt Lake City, Utah) and also at Las Vegas, Nevada. Apparently this year they have also added a date at Laguna Seca. They can supply you with all the gear if you like. They want you to ride their bikes and they are kept up so well that they actually swap your tires out if needed from one day to the next. I'd suggest the 3 day school, but one would still get a ton out of the 2 day school.

    http://www.millermotorsportspark.com...ng-school.html

    If anyone is seriously interested, I'd suggest doing it at Miller and taking the 3 day course. All the instructors are awesome. Everyone get's videoed every day and you watch videos from everyone else... and learn from that too. You also get a ride along with one of the instructors. BTW, even if you never want to do a trackday, this school will make you a much better street rider. If you want to be a better racer, then this school will help you too. They cater things to every student and have ~3 to 1 student to teacher ratio. BTW, many of their students have never been on a track before.

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