Pre-Election Poll

[Sanx]

sure, politics never end

did you really think the lame arguments i've seen convinced me to change my mind?

And I'm sure a pretty large number of people on the other side of the centrist fence are thinking exactly the same thing.

[idleidolidyll]

Left wing voters start off voting for what their school teachers brain wash them about.

As they gain real life experience/intelligence they start to think for themselves and they move more to the right!

(The adage: Those that can, do! Those that can't, teach! Springs to mind)

Those that remain loyal to the left are victims of the boiled frog syndrome.

Those that move to the right are free thinkers! Cheers, John.

Ahh, THAT old hackneyed bullshit. It started in the US and goes something like this:

"Voters start out by voting Liberal but as they grow older and wiser they start voting Conservative."

Of course it's just stupid propaganda and bears no resemblance to reality. That much can be seen by the numbers of voters who vote left wing liberal and the number of young pinheads here who support national.

My personal experience is that I started out voting National but soon realised they supported foreign businesses and governments and cared fuck all for ordinary Kiwis beyond the money their mates could fleece us for.
This was all confirmed later when I worked in Asia as a Sales Mgr and competed for World Bank and IMF contracts: It was clear that corruption ruled the roost and that corruption was overwhelmingly right wing fascism.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Unfortuanately this pole will not be representative of the national demographic. Most of the people on here own their own business' or are not low income earners hence voting Labour would not be there cup of tea. I WISH it was representative of Kiwiland as I have a great, huge & massive dislike for aunty Helen. Obviously I voted National.

this maybe be true... but it interesting to watch either which way

[devnull]

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth; the inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery"

[Pussy]

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth; the inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery"

Love your work!!

[idleidolidyll]

Quotes?
I got a million of em:

"There seems to be nothing to prevent the transnational corporations taking possession of the planet and subjecting humanity to the dictatorship of capital.... In order to crush any thought of organized resistance to the supporters of the new world order, tremendous police and military forces are being used to establish a doctrine of repression...."

— Christian la Brie
Le Monde Diplomatique
Paris

[idleidolidyll]

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

— Abraham Lincoln
1865

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."

— Franklin D.Roosevelt

"A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world — no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men."

— Woodrow Wilson

[idleidolidyll]

It's because they are kept ignorant of course:

"The owners and managers of the press (capitalists) determine which person, which facts, which version of the facts, and which ideas shall reach the public."
Report by the (US) Commission on Freedom of the Press

"When I was Times bureau chief in Washington, I was a member of the League of Gentlemen [i.e., the established elite]; otherwise I never would have been bureau chief. Time after time, good reporters ... complained about not being able to get stories in the paper. And time after time I said to them, 'You're just not going to get that in the New York Times... it's too reliant on your judgement rather than on official judgement, it's too complex, it contradicts the official record more flagrantly than the conventions of daily journalism allow.'"
— Tom Wicker
New York Times columnist
Guardian (London)

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.
"There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job.
"If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.
"The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell the country for his daily bread.
"You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press.
"We are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men.
"We are intellectual prostitutes."
— John Swinton
ex New York Times editor
in a speech before the New York Press Club

[SimJen]

you gotta love Labour though, on one hand they're promoting "Buy NZ Made" on the other we side with a Communist power and our Free Trade agreement with China.
Why do we have free trade with a country that has massive human rights abuse????
Why are we still promoting NZ Made when fuck all is these days, and Labours crap tax system is pushing our businesses off shore loosing jobs and shutting down small towns!
Why does Labour not punish some dork for smacking someone else!
Why does Labour only now pull out the Tax Cuts when previously they had adamantly stated they wouldn't be happening! (VOTES).
Why does Helen make trips to Waiheke Island?
Why does Labour do half of the ridiculous shit and get away with it!!!!!!
Because we let the bitch thats why!!!!!
Vote cleverly this election and change it!!!! and don't vote for a tiny party that won't swing the vote.

[SimJen]

To be honest I don't really care!!!! The above post was just to wind a few people up
Politics is just a ridiculous bunch of kids dicking around for big money!!!
They should try and do some real fucken work instead of whinging and fighting like pathetic little girls.
Democracy is bullshit!! When was the last time anyone had a say!!!
VIVA LA REVOLUTION

[idleidolidyll]

you gotta love Labour though, on one hand they're promoting "Buy NZ Made" on the other we side with a Communist power and our Free Trade agreement with China.

Something the BRT and National applaud and will expand of course. Fascists LIKE dealing with corrupt governments.

Why do we have free trade with a country that has massive human rights abuse????

Yes, why DO we trade with the USA?

Why are we still promoting NZ Made when fuck all is these days, and Labours crap tax system is pushing our businesses off shore loosing jobs and shutting down small towns!

It's a start at least. Undert National we'll be sold down the river to the country most willing to make our politicians richer.

Why does Labour not punish some dork for smacking someone else!

Labour is not a court. Why does National want to kill foreigners?

Why does Labour only now pull out the Tax Cuts when previously they had adamantly stated they wouldn't be happening! (VOTES).

Actually they ALWAYS said there would be tax cuts, they just delayed them. The really funny thing is that National and it's supporters complain that Labour's offer of tax cuts is a bribe but Nationals offer of tax cuts isn't. Go figure; cognitive dissonance anyone? National thinks were all sucker and it seems they are partly right.

Why does Helen make trips to Waiheke Island?

Who gives a fuck?

Why does Labour do half of the ridiculous shit and get away with it!!!!!!

Because that's what ALL politicians do and National is worse. Watch them shift wealth up the chain and let lower income earners suffer.

Because we let the bitch thats why!!!!!

AHA! It's a testosterone thing I see. Why does a female leader upset you so?

Vote cleverly this election and change it!!!! and don't vote for a tiny party that won't swing the vote.

Yes, vote cleverly. Investigate the promises and actions of all parties. Don't buy into propaganda. Ask National what their policies actually are (they're keeping them secret for good reason). Think about the sellout of NZ that's gonna happen again under National. Think about a repeat of the odious Employment Contracts Act that drove real income down. Think about Kiwis dying overseas on behalf of foreign capitalism.

[SimJen]

Originally Posted by SimJen
you gotta love Labour though, on one hand they're promoting "Buy NZ Made" on the other we side with a Communist power and our Free Trade agreement with China.

Something the BRT and National applaud and will expand of course. Fascists LIKE dealing with corrupt governments.

Whatever, so its alright then!

Why do we have free trade with a country that has massive human rights abuse????

Yes, why DO we trade with the USA?

Questionable but I see your point

Why are we still promoting NZ Made when fuck all is these days, and Labours crap tax system is pushing our businesses off shore loosing jobs and shutting down small towns!

It's a start at least. Undert National we'll be sold down the river to the country most willing to make our politicians richer.

Interesting!!!! but Labour started it

Why does Labour not punish some dork for smacking someone else!

Labour is not a court. Why does National want to kill foreigners?

National doesn't want to kill foreigners, how can Labour dictate any form of Law and Order system when they won't follow any laws themselves.
They can't even make the cops go and arrest some maoris blocking access to the odd road (too scared to attract the "Racist" remarks).

Why does Labour only now pull out the Tax Cuts when previously they had adamantly stated they wouldn't be happening! (VOTES).

Actually they ALWAYS said there would be tax cuts, they just delayed them. The really funny thing is that National and it's supporters complain that Labour's offer of tax cuts is a bribe but Nationals offer of tax cuts isn't. Go figure; cognitive dissonance anyone? National thinks were all sucker and it seems they are partly right.

So they've been stealing all our money for the last 8 years or so!!!! Thats nice, I'd love to see some of it back!!!

Why does Helen make trips to Waiheke Island?

Who gives a fuck?

I do, why live a LIE

Why does Labour do half of the ridiculous shit and get away with it!!!!!!

Because that's what ALL politicians do and National is worse. Watch them shift wealth up the chain and let lower income earners suffer.

Lower income earners earn less for a reason!!!! Its called School and if they had listened to their parents etc they wouldn't be in the position they are! We can't be accountable for other peoples fuckups!!! and why should others who did something useful with their lives have to pander to those that didn't. Under labour everyone is equal hmmmm. like communism!!!

Because we let the bitch thats why!!!!!

AHA! It's a testosterone thing I see. Why does a female leader upset you so?

A female leader makes no difference to me!!!!
If Labour had a male leader with the same values then I would have called him a bastard!

Vote cleverly this election and change it!!!! and don't vote for a tiny party that won't swing the vote.

Yes, vote cleverly. Investigate the promises and actions of all parties. Don't buy into propaganda. Ask National what their policies actually are (they're keeping them secret for good reason). Think about the sellout of NZ that's gonna happen again under National. Think about a repeat of the odious Employment Contracts Act that drove real income down. Think about Kiwis dying overseas on behalf of foreign capitalism.

The sellout of NZ has already happened mate! Labour have done it nicely.
They've fucked employers, fucked businesses to the point they have to move overseas. They've fucked the everyday person just trying to get by, sucking too much tax off them for the last 8 years and screwing there education with societies general dumbing down.
Labour have been lucky to have the weak USD support them for these past few years, it had to come to an end though.
And your just fucked off that they will lose the next election!
Bleat on as much as you like, get all the anti capitalism quotes you need.
Whether its a National led government or what I don't care, just as long as Labour is out in the gutter where they belong!

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[swbarnett]

There is a perception in probably most democratic countries that everybody should vote no matter what. In my mind this just messes up the system. If you actually think one party is better than another then, yes, you should vote. But if you're truly undecided then voting just turns an election into a lottery. Leave the voting to those that actually have an opinion. One of the best run countries I know only get's a 20% to 30% turn out for their general elections.

The actual system of government is the most democratic I've seen. The government (both federal and local) run the day to day affairs on their own but any major decisions (which road barriers to use for instance) would go to a legally binding refarendum (we got about four a month in the mail). You even get to vote on whether you approve next year's budget.

[Finn]

National's a fucking joke

The rest of KiwiBiker doesn't agree with you... but I guess you'd be used to that by now.

Get a job and a haircut and stop being a burden to hardworking NZers.

[Finn]

you're a capitalist, what the fuck does patriotism have to do with it?

Like most uneducated people, you don't seem to understand that one can embrace Capitalism and be patriotic to your home land. However, you do raise a good point in that I am not very patriotic as far as NZ goes. I used to be, but I just don't take the place seriously anymore.