Waving - the neverending saga (multiple threads merged into one)

[Blue Velvet]

A vanishing minority of non-patched men would do as I stated. Maybe one in a thousand? One in ten thousand?

Every patched member of the Mongrel Mob, however, has almost certainly done such things.

ALMOST certainly.

So you're fine with people who murder, rape, lie and steal, so long as they don't do it to you?

Now you're twisting things that haven't been said and making assumptions. And you've missed what I typed previously, when I said that anyone can do those things.

Please don't assume that I condone anyone's behaviour. My posts have not implied that. I've merely stated that I wave to all bikers and that my neighbours have been good. The guy next door just happens to wear a patch. I'm not saying I think the mongrel mob are awesome, so back off.

The guy wearing branded bike leathers that I waved to yesterday could be a rapist or wife beater or the chick in the pink helmet might have put her kid in hospital cos he wouldn't eat his dinner. Who the fuck am I to judge someone based on misinformation?

And why are you so bitter anyway? Get broomsticked by the mob in prison or something?

...I just think you're an idiot.

Ditto. When you can learn to not pre-judge people (i.e. me), then maybe you won't be such a miserable bastard.

[jrandom]

ALMOST certainly.

You wave to people who are 'almost certainly' murderers, rapists, liars and thieves, and are happy to have them as your neighbours?

... anyone can do those things.

Utterly fallacious. Anyone can, but very few do.

The guy wearing branded bike leathers that I waved to yesterday could be a rapist or wife beater or the chick in the pink helmet might have put her kid in hospital cos he wouldn't eat his dinner.

Gimme a break. The likelihood that your average person on the street is a violent criminal is tiny. Don't justify your ambivalence toward and acceptance of patched gang members by trying to claim that they're not the only scumbags in the world. How on earth does that make anything better?

Who the fuck am I to judge someone based on misinformation?

The gang patch isn't misinformation; it's a clear statement telling the rest of society to be afraid.

Get broomsticked by the mob in prison or something?

Not personally, but I know a few folk who've been hurt pretty bad by that sort. Perhaps if you did too, you'd change your tune.

When you can learn to not pre-judge people (i.e. me), then maybe you won't be such a miserable bastard.

When you can learn not to talk with your head up your arse, then maybe you won't be such a naive nincompoop.

[Blue Velvet]

...Don't justify your ambivalence toward and acceptance of patched gang members...

Again, you're twisting words. This is not what I've said, YOU are assuming this and typing crap to provoke. Good on ya, I've got all day. No wait, I have to go pick up my bike soon so make it quick eh?

I consider my neighbour a person before I consider the patch. That is not acceptance of patched gang members. Get your fucking facts right and go crawl up your moral arsehole, ooops I mean highground.

[idb]

Are you two married?

[Blue Velvet]

Are you two married?

No, thank fuck.

[Tank]

The upshot is that all gang members are scum - they have to be in order to join the other filth.

They don't deserve the acknowledgement of a wave.

Ever wonder how so many of them (who generally dont have a job) can afford to ride that expensive Harley? Drugs, stand over, theft - but "Hey" give them a wave coz its all OK. They choose to live outside of society - leave them there.

And the reason that your neighbour is all OK? Generally they dont shit where they sleep. They go elsewhere make the lives of others miserable.

It may be OK for you now - but Im sure the families who have been the unfortunate victims having bullets thru their window simply because they live next to a patched gang member thought it was 'all good' as well.

I hope that it never happens to you.

[jrandom]

I consider my neighbour a person before I consider the patch.

I consider people based on what I know about them, and when they wear a sign saying "I'm scum", I treat them accordingly.

That is not acceptance of patched gang members. Get your fucking facts right...

Waving to them when you see them on the road and being happy about living next to them doesn't constitute 'acceptance'?

... go crawl up your moral arsehole, ooops I mean highground.

Give it a few hours, let yourself fizz down. You fucked up by admitting that you deal with patched MMM guys as though they're regular human beings, and now you're in a tizzy because I called you on it.

They're not regular human beings, that's all there is to it.

[Finn]

I have to side with Jrandom here. Patched members are scum and would you believe our loverly leader is now funding them for programs targeting youth... while they are still members? They are laughing all the way to the bank.

However, I do have an "acquaintance" that is a patched member of one of the nasties that I have used once when the legal system let me down. I got all my money plus interest and they cost much less than a lawyer.

[Blue Velvet]

I consider people based on what I know about them.

Ditto.

Waving to them when you see them on the road and being happy about living next to them doesn't constitute 'acceptance'?

Not unless you're Freud.

Give it a few hours, let yourself fizz down. You fucked up by admitting that you deal with patched MMM guys as though they're regular human beings, and now you're in a tizzy because I called you on it.

No tizzy. Enjoying a debate with someone who seems to be very narrow minded and unaccepting of differing points of view. I must say, it's a tad sad that you've taken some things I've said out of context but oh well. As I said. I've got all day.

They're not regular human beings, that's all there is to it.

I never said that. I said that there are many disappointing people both in and outside of the biker community. You have misconstrued this all to mean that I condone rape and murder and broomsticking. So uh maybe you should take a step back and stop reading things that aren't there?

Just a thought.

[Tank]

I consider my neighbour a person before I consider the patch.

So using that logic - Out late at night by yourself and break down.

A group of patched gang members come out of a house, they see you and start approaching. Are you saying you would not feel any more apprehension then if it was any other group of 'normal' people?

Im sure that you couldn't - and that's because you know they are scum and sadly, yes, people should be afraid of them.

You are simply presenting a pathetic argument to be bloody minded.

[Blue Velvet]

Waving to them when you see them on the road and being happy about living next to them doesn't constitute 'acceptance'

Perhaps waving means different things to different people. My waving does not mean acceptance of patched gang members. Nor does it mean I'm anyone's friend. I'm acknowledging a biker. My neighbours are who they are. They live there and I live there. End of story. The only thing I've said is they have been more pleasant than the fat cage driving monster upstairs. That is not saying I condone whatever the hell they get up to. So your righteousness is not justified.

Also, I never said I was happy about living next door to the patched people. Throughout your messages you have accused me of accepting their behaviour and judged me because of how YOU have interpreted my posts. The written word can be misconstrued, as from some of your older posts I'm sure you're aware.

Don't judge me because of what you have inserted between the lines.

[Blue Velvet]

...to be bloody minded.

Perhaps it is you who is doing this?

The things I am being accused of have not been said so I'm standing up for myself. Simple.

[Tank]

Nope - Im only been here for a couple of post having read the last few pages. I havnt had the chance to be bloody minded yet.

I was questioning your comments about them being treated as people first patched members second.

So using that logic - Out late at night by yourself and break down.

A group of patched gang members come out of a house, they see you and start approaching. Are you saying you would not feel any more apprehension then if it was any other group of 'normal' people?

Im sure that you couldn't - and that's because you know they are scum and sadly, yes, people should be afraid of them.

You didnt answer - and I would be interested.

If you are more apprehensive - it shows that you know they are generally trouble and that you do indeed judge them for the patch before what they are like as a person.

If you dont - well (and very sadly) - Im guessing that you have the ability to be a victim in the making.

[jrandom]

The things I am being accused of have not been said so I'm standing up for myself. Simple.

Your antagonistic response makes it sound as though you're simply being stubborn, rather than that you're trying to clarify your position and make it clear that you do not, in fact, approve of gang members in any way.

If you're happy to agree that they are, in fact, scum, then I'm sure we have nothing further to argue about.

Getting upset and attacking someone who takes issue with your statements is not "standing up for yourself"; it's just letting your annoyance get in the way of a clear agreement on something that we should all share the same view on.

[Blue Velvet]

Your antagonistic response makes it sound as though you're simply being stubborn, rather than that you're trying to clarify your position and make it clear that you do not, in fact, approve of gang members in any way.

If you're happy to agree that they are, in fact, scum, then I'm sure we have nothing further to argue about.

Getting upset and attacking someone who takes issue with your statements is not "standing up for yourself"; it's just letting your annoyance get in the way of a clear agreement on something that we should all share the same view on.

See that's just it though. I found YOUR response very antagonistic. And I wasn't getting upset. I'm debating in an online internet forum. I get upset when something happens to my bikes. I don't get upset shooting the shit online, so stop telling me what I am and what I'm not. Stop telling me I approve of and condone stuff I don't. Just accept I have different views on waving. To me it appears you find it a very friendly, accepting gesture. I don't. The issue re patched gang members got taken out of context.