Clubmans racing - what's it all about?

[FROSTY:Me]

Hey guys there seems to be a bit of heat on the subject of clubmans racing. Who should and shouldn't be entering.
I always thought that you were allowed in clubbie class unless you were doing lap times 120% or less than the fastest bike in the class you would be eligable for.
Its of interest to me as I'm looking at doing the next summer series on a 600 but thought I'd start out in clubbie till I get a feel for the bike.

[Skunk]

Victoria Motorcycle Clubs Clubbie 'rules':
Clubmans is not a championship class. Clubmans riders are eligible for Clubmans class only. No championship points will be awarded to riders. After reaching a sufficient skill and pace the rider may be moved to an appropriate class if it is safe and practical. As a guide: 'Sufficient pace' will be a mid-to-back of class lap time for the class the bike would otherwise fit. 'Sufficient skill' will be a consensus decision of the race organisers.

[steveyb]

So, when I started racing back in 1990 mumble, the clubman class was where you went to start out, to see how you could go in a racing situation, to develop your skills, to decide what class you wanted to get into.

You were involved in the race meeting so could meet the other riders, check out the different bikes and get tips (good and bad).

Very often Clubman was treated very much as a Run wot ya Brung class where many riders actually rode to the track, took off mirrors, taped up lights and went racing. For the longest time Clubman was also a points class.

But over the past few years Clubman racing (at VMCC anyway) became a place for some good riders to spend their time 'beating up' on truely Clubman riders. Some riders were just spending year after year racing in Clubman which to many seemed pretty pointless. Many thought that the goal was for riders to use the Clubman class as a non-competitive type venue to get an introduction to the sport and then move into a competitive class.

So recently VMCC decided to make the Clubman a truely non-competitive class so that riders would try and move into competitive classes. In order to 'police' it, for want of a better word, laptime thresholds were introduced so that rider could see that they were capable of moving into suitable classes.

There is also a safety element to that decision I feel, in that we have the situation where there are quite skilled riders out in Clubman class on Superbikes and Supersport bikes going very fast in the same race as youth and novice riders on Streetstock and Pro-lite type bikes. Anyone see the trouble there???

[scracha]

Anyone see the trouble there???

Tyrewarmers, slicks and >150bhp bikes mean clubmans is now a completely pointless class that wastes precious track time.

Bung a yellow vest on new riders, give them a scratchie safety test and throw them in a class based on their qualifying time. Don't allow them to score points if they've been dropped to a "lower" class due to low qualifying time. Black flag them if they're dangerous/stupid.

[Ender EnZed]

Hey guys there seems to be a bit of heat on the subject of clubmans racing. Who should and shouldn't be entering.

It should be an entry class, pure and simple. Don't make it attractive posturers, just encourage the idea that it's it's a learning class. Vests won't hurt anyone.

[DEATH_INC.]

It should be an entry class, pure and simple. Don't make it attractive posturers, just encourage the idea that it's it's a learning class.

Yep, I reckon as soon as you lap faster than the slowest average laptime for the class you would run in you should be moved. No points.

[Tony.OK]

Hey guys there seems to be a bit of heat on the subject of clubmans racing. Who should and shouldn't be entering.
I always thought that you were allowed in clubbie class unless you were doing lap times 120% or less than the fastest bike in the class you would be eligable for.
Its of interest to me as I'm looking at doing the next summer series on a 600 but thought I'd start out in clubbie till I get a feel for the bike.

I think the other thread refers to a slightly different situation in that it is about Clubmans at national meetings, that I can understand as a rider that is of moderate pace at club level may be 10 sec slower than Nat level riders, so they would rather go in Clubbies as to not interfere with the top boys, to me if fields are at a good capacity that seems fine, they are still supporting the Nats. Maybe it should be called something else at those meetings?

Clubmans at club meetings I think still has a place, but do ppl need to be in it for the whole series? I'm not so sure, what with all the track days etc now more ppl are up to speed before entering races. Something which dare I say "older" racers didn't have the opportunity to do. Most riders who do track days have an idea of their laptimes at trackdays so its not hard to look at Mylaps and compare with race times, thats how I started it all when I got into it.

Someone like yourself thats had a bit of tracktime may only do 1 meeting in clubbies and know you're comfy again so move into the proper class.

[CHOPPA]

At national events it should work by the 115% rule. If you dont make the 115% cut off in your class instead of packing up and going home there is a class or 'non qualifiers' Clubmens...

[MSTRS:Me]

There is also a safety element to that decision I feel, in that we have the situation where there are quite skilled riders out in Clubman class on Superbikes and Supersport bikes going very fast in the same race as youth and novice riders on Streetstock and Pro-lite type bikes. Anyone see the trouble there???

Don't recall EVER seeing the little bikes entered in Clubbies...400's maybe.

[sinfull]

Tyrewarmers, slicks and >150bhp bikes mean clubmans is now a completely pointless class that wastes precious track time.

Bung a yellow vest on new riders, give them a scratchie safety test and throw them in a class based on their qualifying time. Don't allow them to score points if they've been dropped to a "lower" class due to low qualifying time. Black flag them if they're dangerous/stupid.

Pacific club did it for the summer and personally i think it's a great idea !

I know i'm slow, i know my 1050 speed 3 falls into the F1 cat, but power to weight (mine also) i'm only as good as a slow F2 bike/rider, I don't want to go into F1 with it, i'd be just a mobile chicain !

But chuck me in F2 to thrash it about and i could have a whole lot of fun and be slightly competitive against the jap 600's and not hold them who want top points/placings up in the last few laps !~

I know i aint gonna win nothin, it aint about that, but i've done clubbies and won a couple of races, have ever so little race craft now, so clubmans as a seperate class i'd be called a burglar !

SOoooo long story short i won't be entering in the winter series ! but i might think about the next summer series, after talking to Nigel about the new pac class they have (clubmans within classes, going by qualifying times) no points but racing with peers !

[wharfy]

Some people just wanna have fun, race but not have all the drama of campaigning an F1 or F2 bike, let them stay in clubman's, It's great fun I really enjoyed it.

[DidJit]

What is the added drama of campaigning an F1/2/3/4/GP/posties/classics bike? (Serious question.)

[Clivoris]

What is the added drama of campaigning an F1/2/3/4/GP/posties/classics bike? (Serious question.)

Great question. If you are way off the pace in a race class, and nervous you can be a liability to other riders then clubmans is the place for you. If you are at the tail end of the field, but predictable and don't get freaked out by getting lapped, a proper race class is the place for you. There is a degree of subjectivity to deciding what to do. When I started on a 400, I made the decision to enter F3 instead of clubmans because I would be with riders who were more experienced and predictable, and I would have a good idea how I was going against comparable machines. Turned out I was shit, but at least I got a baseline and worked on it, amongst a decent comparison group. Some people hold off on shifting from clubmans partly because they don't want to get in the way of "serious" racers, but also because they like being the fastest of the slowest. Once you're around 115% of the faster times in the class and competition you are looking at, I reckon you should move up. If you're confident and predictable, don't wait that long. The quicker you get out into proper competition the quicker you go. No drama. Even when I was wobbling around in last place, I had nothing but encouragement from the podium owners.

[The Singing Chef]

Cheers for this thread Frosty, I am looking at Clubmans as well to start off with to build on some racecraft and then get into the pro-twin scene when I have enough experience. No problem being passed closely and around corners but still don't feel as if I would be ready. Just need money now, before I look it up, anybody off the top of their head have an idea of prices at an average for a series in Clubmans, or even just a couple of meetings etc... Cheers.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Any poolick (male or female) that enters 'Clubmans' to bolster their ego is a POOLICK.

Tell them to fuck off.