View Poll Results: Child Disipline/Smacking. Reasonable or Not?

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  • Yes. Totally acceptable.

    102 90.27%
  • No. Not under any circumstances.

    11 9.73%
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Thread: Bradford Bitch gets her first conviction.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007XX View Post
    That's exactly the info I'm after...is there anyone who could post a link to that revised bill please?

    I've been trying to find it, but I'm just getting the run around.
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/brows...t=pal_statutes


    [59Parental control



    (1)Every parent of a child and every person in the place of a parent of the child is justified in using force if the force used is reasonable in the circumstances and is for the purpose of—




    (a)preventing or minimising harm to the child or another person; or




    (b)preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in conduct that amounts to a criminal offence; or




    (c)preventing the child from engaging or continuing to engage in offensive or disruptive behaviour; or




    (d)performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting.




    (2)Nothing in subsection (1) or in any rule of common law justifies the use of force for the purpose of correction.




    (3)Subsection (2) prevails over subsection (1).




    (4)To avoid doubt, it is affirmed that the Police have the discretion not to prosecute complaints against a parent of a child or person in the place of a parent of a child in relation to an offence involving the use of force against a child, where the offence is considered to be so inconsequential that there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution.]

  2. #47
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    So subsection 1 is suplanted by subsection 2 no matter what?!?

    But hang on a minute:

    Aren't points b, c and d normal parts of what someone would call "parenting"?

    So, in effect, aren't they saying in subsection 1 that a parent (or legal guardian) is justified in using reasonnable force for points a,b,c and d...

    But then completely overule this by saying in subsection2 that nothing in section 1 or in the law justifies the use of force for the purpose of correction.

    So number 2 says that no matter what your reasons or how reasonable the amount of "force" was, it will never be justified in the eyes of the law, because of subsection 2.

    Then, number 4 leaves it in the hands of the police to use their discretion as to wether the complaint is warranted or not...

    No disrespect, but since when is every single police member out there a specialist in parenthood? It's just putting too much reponsibility into the wrong hands.

    I'm sorry, but the intention is good at heart, but the wording is very poor. I also question the motives of the people who compiled it in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Time to cut out the "holier/more enlightened than thou" bullshit and the "slut" comments and let people live honestly how they like providing they're not harming themselves or others in the process.

  3. #48
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    My parents never smacked/hit/gave me the beats or anything... & I turned out fine!... I have never had any run ins with the police... never stolen... have a sucessful career... etc and so on

    my friends when I was a child who used to get the beats... well... most of them already have kids... on the benefit... with P habits... and have had run ins with the law....

    So... imho... what a load of shit!!... not smacking your kid doesnt mean they'll turn into criminals!!... giving your kids the bash however... how you think they are gonna turn out??... they're going to bash their own kids because 'thats how i was brought up'... break the cycle & there'll be alot less children getting killed by their own parents/family!!

    I dont disagree with a smack on the bum if a child has seriously misbehaved etc... but if you leave a mark on any child then you are spineless & deserve to get charged under bradfords stoopid law!
    "World famous since ages ago"

  4. #49
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    So subsection 1 is suplanted by subsection 2 no matter what?!?

    But hang on a minute:

    Aren't points b, c and d normal parts of what someone would call "parenting"?

    So, in effect, aren't they saying in subsection 1 that a parent (or legal guardian) is justified in using reasonnable force for points a,b,c and d...

    But then completely overule this by saying in subsection2 that nothing in section 1 or in the law justifies the use of force for the purpose of correction.

    So number 2 says that no matter what your reasons or how reasonable the amount of "force" was, it will never be justified in the eyes of the law, because of subsection 2.

    Then, number 4 leaves it in the hands of the police to use their discretion as to wether the complaint is warranted or not...

    No disrespect, but since when is every single police member out there a specialist in parenthood? It's just putting too much reponsibility into the wrong hands.

    I'm sorry, but the intention is good at heart, but the wording is very poor. I also question the motives of the people who compiled it in the first place.
    They distinguish between prevention and correction...

    My parents gave me a couple of smacks along the way - nothing brutal or bruising... painful indeed and in every way justified. I don't hold that against them at all - I actually think it was the only right response to my behaviour at those given times.

    Seems to me though that kids are just too much trouble to be worth the bother!
    It is preferential to refrain from the utilisation of grandiose verbiage in the circumstance that your intellectualisation can be expressed using comparatively simplistic lexicological entities. (...such as the word fuck.)

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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikkel View Post
    They distinguish between prevention and correction...

    My parents gave me a couple of smacks along the way - nothing brutal or bruising... painful indeed and in every way justified. I don't hold that against them at all - I actually think it was the only right response to my behaviour at those given times.

    Seems to me though that kids are just too much trouble to be worth the bother!
    The problem in my view is how much the distinction is left blurry and therefor who is it left to define it when the time comes to make a ruling?

    Not the parents obviously.

    A few very irresponsible parents unable to restrain themselves for whatever reasons are making it difficult for the rest of us.

    Once again, a few a ruling for the masses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Time to cut out the "holier/more enlightened than thou" bullshit and the "slut" comments and let people live honestly how they like providing they're not harming themselves or others in the process.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSel View Post

    I dont disagree with a smack on the bum if a child has seriously misbehaved etc... but if you leave a mark on any child then you are spineless & deserve to get charged under bradfords stoopid law!
    So you agree discipline is OK.
    Using terms like Giving the Bash isn't really tied into this.
    Most people agree that light discipline is OK. As for leaving a mark....most smacks/straps will leave a mark for an hour or two. Harmless, and reminds little Johny/Suzy that they stepped out of line.
    I'm quite sure that the rate of offending will rise in the future if parents are hamstrung by Bradfords bullshit.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tri boy View Post
    So you agree discipline is OK.
    Using terms like Giving the Bash isn't really tied into this.
    Most people agree that light discipline is OK. As for leaving a mark....most smacks/straps will leave a mark for an hour or two. Harmless, and reminds little Johny/Suzy that they stepped out of line.
    I'm quite sure that the rate of offending will rise in the future if parents are hamstrung by Bradfords bullshit.
    hehe... Im Suzie Q!
    "World famous since ages ago"

  8. #53
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    A number of years ago, there was a high-brow debate TV series on Channel 4 in the UK entitled "The Ultimate Question" (I think). They would invite a panel of 'experts' to have a debate on the question of the day and the audience were invited to participate. As an aside, the show where they considered the question "Are religion and science compatible?" they invited Richard Dawkins and the Bishop of York (I think). By the end of it, the Bishop was just ranting after having been made to look like a complete halfwit. But I digress.

    Another show considered the question "Is it ever right for the strong to control the weak?". Amongst the invited experts was a Professor of Sociology from Newcastle University; a typical rabid left-winger with added chips on his shoulder no doubt stemming from the fact he was about a metre tall; not an exaggeration.

    One audience member raised the issue of parents using physical force to correct a child's behaviour. The rabid dwarf was absolute vehement in his position that under no circumstances should a parent ever lay a finger on their children for any purposes and to do so should be treated as assault. After ascertaining that the rabid dwarf had no children, another audience member posed a hypothetical question. Holding up his wallet with a picture of his toddler-age daughter, he asked "If my daughter reaches up to grab something hot or dangerous, should I not therefore be allowed to give her a light smack on the bum to indicate she shouldn't do it again?".

    Predicatably, the answer was no. Instead, the Professor suggested, he should explain the dangers inherent in the child's actions and impress upon them that repeating such actions could have unwanted results. The audience member then explained that although his daughter could understand the concept of hurting, trying to impress on her the dangers of putting her hands in a gas fire would be virtually impossible, and any pain that he caused her by a smack on the bum would be trivial compared to the pain and suffering caused by her hands coming into contact with white-hot flames.

    Still, the Professor argued to punish the daughter was immoral. The audience member tried explaining to him that it wasn't a punishment. It was using a small transitory amount of pain to illustrate such an action was bad, and to prevent a much worse situation appearing in the future, especially when the child was of an age where you couldn't simply reason with them. But, like most bigoted pseudo-communist ideologists, he was completely unwilling to listen to any argument that didn't exactly fit his personal idea of a reg flag utopia.

    Bradford is cut from the same cloth as the rabid dwarf. Politically, she's slightly to the left of Lenin but nowhere near as intelligent. And she's uglier... I don't have children yet I object to this bill and the aims espoused within it. Bradford has essentially criminalised a parent applying any form of correction to a child. Picking them up to put them in their room, grabbing their shoulder as they run out into the road, smacking their hand when they go to touch something hot or sharp ... anything. Rather like the current debacle that is the Electoral Finance Bill, the law no longer defines what is acceptable and what isn't, but rather introduces a grey area of theoretical offences that the Police have to consider each and every incident raised with them but may choose to exercise discretion over whether to prosecute. There's no certainly for parents any more ... they don't know what is allowed, what is right and what they are prohibited from doing. In addition, Bradford's bill gave feuding parents another stick with which to beat each other, in the most horrible way possible, as well as providing shitlet older children with a method by which they can attack their parents.

    The situation's disgusting. The sooner this government goes, and the Green Party gets lined up against the wall and shot with greenhouse-gas producing bullets, the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSel View Post
    My parents never smacked/hit/gave me the beats or anything... & I turned out fine!... I have never had any run ins with the police... never stolen... have a sucessful career... etc and so on
    But you have tattoos and piercings ... your parents must be wishing they'd got out the cat'o'nine tails now.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanx View Post

    But you have tattoos and piercings ... your parents must be wishing they'd got out the cat'o'nine tails now.
    Nooo... They paid for most of them ...

    n successful career... I didnt mean my current job, however successful I have been here... I finish here on 14th Dec... start new job 17th Dec
    "World famous since ages ago"

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    And so do girls...naughty things that they are.



    A smack when needed is a valuable tool in the parenting kit.
    And unlike an adult (theoretically) one cannot always reason with children...
    Not so sure on that one...........but then Nats cannot go anywhere and I have a remote stop for her wheelchair to negotiate.

    But to be honest, I am a huge softy so I normally give in anyway.............and Nats is still a good kid...............and she is open to negotiation.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanx View Post
    A number of years ago, there was a high-brow debate TV series on Channel 4 in the UK entitled "The Ultimate Question" (I think). They would invite a panel of 'experts' to have a debate on the question of the day and the audience were invited to participate. As an aside, the show where they considered the question "Are religion and science compatible?" they invited Richard Dawkins and the Bishop of York (I think). By the end of it, the Bishop was just ranting after having been made to look like a complete halfwit. But I digress.

    Another show considered the question "Is it ever right for the strong to control the weak?". Amongst the invited experts was a Professor of Sociology from Newcastle University; a typical rabid left-winger with added chips on his shoulder no doubt stemming from the fact he was about a metre tall; not an exaggeration.

    One audience member raised the issue of parents using physical force to correct a child's behaviour. The rabid dwarf was absolute vehement in his position that under no circumstances should a parent ever lay a finger on their children for any purposes and to do so should be treated as assault. After ascertaining that the rabid dwarf had no children, another audience member posed a hypothetical question. Holding up his wallet with a picture of his toddler-age daughter, he asked "If my daughter reaches up to grab something hot or dangerous, should I not therefore be allowed to give her a light smack on the bum to indicate she shouldn't do it again?".

    Predicatably, the answer was no. Instead, the Professor suggested, he should explain the dangers inherent in the child's actions and impress upon them that repeating such actions could have unwanted results. The audience member then explained that although his daughter could understand the concept of hurting, trying to impress on her the dangers of putting her hands in a gas fire would be virtually impossible, and any pain that he caused her by a smack on the bum would be trivial compared to the pain and suffering caused by her hands coming into contact with white-hot flames.

    Still, the Professor argued to punish the daughter was immoral. The audience member tried explaining to him that it wasn't a punishment. It was using a small transitory amount of pain to illustrate such an action was bad, and to prevent a much worse situation appearing in the future, especially when the child was of an age where you couldn't simply reason with them. But, like most bigoted pseudo-communist ideologists, he was completely unwilling to listen to any argument that didn't exactly fit his personal idea of a reg flag utopia.

    Bradford is cut from the same cloth as the rabid dwarf. Politically, she's slightly to the left of Lenin but nowhere near as intelligent. And she's uglier... I don't have children yet I object to this bill and the aims espoused within it. Bradford has essentially criminalised a parent applying any form of correction to a child. Picking them up to put them in their room, grabbing their shoulder as they run out into the road, smacking their hand when they go to touch something hot or sharp ... anything. Rather like the current debacle that is the Electoral Finance Bill, the law no longer defines what is acceptable and what isn't, but rather introduces a grey area of theoretical offences that the Police have to consider each and every incident raised with them but may choose to exercise discretion over whether to prosecute. There's no certainly for parents any more ... they don't know what is allowed, what is right and what they are prohibited from doing. In addition, Bradford's bill gave feuding parents another stick with which to beat each other, in the most horrible way possible, as well as providing shitlet older children with a method by which they can attack their parents.

    The situation's disgusting. The sooner this government goes, and the Green Party gets lined up against the wall and shot with greenhouse-gas producing bullets, the better.



    But you have tattoos and piercings ... your parents must be wishing they'd got out the cat'o'nine tails now.
    What's wrong with actually talking and explaining to kids...smacking is the easy option for the parent..........so that when they are older they will be able to understand verbal reasoning.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahameeboy View Post
    Not so sure on that one...........but then Nats cannot go anywhere and I have a remote stop for her wheelchair to negotiate.

    But to be honest, I am a huge softy so I normally give in anyway.............and Nats is still a good kid...............and she is open to negotiation.
    If only all parents had a remote-controlled child, eh?!
    And not every child needs or responds to a smack. Parents discover what works for each child over time.
    You show me a book about 'How to parent' and I'll show you a crock of shit - they are all written by Bradford-types
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by tri boy View Post
    Masterton man smacks his misbehaving 8yr old on the bum with an open palm, and gets 9mths supervision.
    Teachers can't strap/cane, or discipline and now that Bradford bitch has got her first man for being a straight up father.
    F**k me!
    As usual by the pro childrens assaulting brigade you are very selective in your facts. The child was reported by a family member. The child had been so badly mishandled the father that the faimly member informed the police because of bruising sustained in 'smacking.'

    Tri a little harder Boy.



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  14. #59
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    What would Super Nanny do ?

    She seems to get results.
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  15. #60
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    Is it any wonder why NZ is hopeless at sports like rugby... and legue... get a little tackle and bradford would be in there like a shot... (well not really but...)

    With so little nown on the case to the public, I reserve my judgement...

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