Bradford Bitch gets her first conviction.

[Skyryder]

Can I just point out the poll results!!!! How did the anti smacking law get passed!!!!!

I can't believe that people thought that this law would stop those low life scum f**ks that BEAT (not smack) their kids. How many stupid people are there out there?????

There are laws about murder but does it stop it happening?????????

All this law has done has taken away another form of discipline and as it goes on we see more and more what kind of kids are appearing. They all think they can do what they like, say what they like and when ever they like. When you really speak to good honest people you find out they had some discipline, often in the way of the odd smack.

Until people realise there will be consequences for THEIR actions and it's THEIR fault not someone else's it's just going to get worse.

I'm sure there'll be some do gooders out there that would disagree but look where all this PC shite has got us.

That's my opinion anyway

There's a thread on this somewhere. No one that I know who was in support of Bradford's bill has said that her bill would stop child abuse etc. No legislation will prevent murder, theft, fraud etc. It just makes it unlawfull to do so. The bill is to prevent the use of reasonble force as a defence. It was no more or less than that. I don't belive that holding parents accountable for inflicting unneccassary pain and injury on their siblings is PC.

I can not for the life of me see what the problem is. There is a choice here. Parents who have the right as they see fit to inflict pain and injuty on their children or the right of the child to recieve an upbringing where pain and injury are unacceptable. Clearly the community see the latter. Thats' the real tragedy.

Skyryder

[MSTRS:Me]

Can I just point out the poll results!!!! How did the anti smacking law get passed!!!!!

Because, like certain people here, the pollies, who are supposed to represent the will of the people, were not listening. Same as the dog-chipping business.

[devnull]

There's a thread on this somewhere. No one that I know who was in support of Bradford's bill has said that her bill would stop child abuse etc. No legislation will prevent murder, theft, fraud etc. It just makes it unlawfull to do so. The bill is to prevent the use of reasonble force as a defence. It was no more or less than that. I don't belive that holding parents accountable for inflicting unneccassary pain and injury on their siblings is PC.

I can not for the life of me see what the problem is. There is a choice here. Parents who have the right as they see fit to inflict pain and injuty on their children or the right of the child to recieve an upbringing where pain and injury are unacceptable. Clearly the community see the latter. Thats' the real tragedy.

Skyryder

The term "reasonable force" is very well tested in law i.e. that deemed to be reasonable under the circumstances by a jury of your peers.

I can not for the life of me see what the problem is. There is a choice here. Parents who have the right as they see fit to inflict pain and injuty on their children or the right of the child to recieve an upbringing where pain and injury are unacceptable. Clearly the community see the latter. Thats' the real tragedy.

Skyryder

Actually, the real tragedy is the misguided (and I'm being generous there) individuals that have absolutely no idea about raising kids, yet insist on inflicting their idealistic claptrap on those that do.
Maybe when you become a parent you'll then be able to see what the problem is.

Your implication of "inflicting pain and injury" is ludicrous.

If that was valid, then an equally valid example would be a parent putting a 12 gauge solid into the chest of any social worker that comes calling, then justifying their actions under S48 (self defence)

I'm surprised that Bradford's statement in parliament that it's mostly men that smack, and they only do so for sexual gratification, hasn't been trotted out yet.

I'm left wondering at the level of maturity of those that take up the whole anti-smacking argument in the face of mountains of proven research that clearly shows they are wrong. Must be some form of left-wing religious hysteria, because there's certainly no rational reason evident

[Mom]

Parents who have the right as they see fit to inflict pain and injuty on their children or the right of the child to recieve an upbringing where pain and injury are unacceptable. Clearly the community see the latter. Thats' the real tragedy.

Skyryder

I was going to leave this one alone but I can not leave your comment.

A few for questions for you...Can you give us an indication of your age, and whether you actually have children, or have ever been responsible for the parenting of children?


In your eyes I am part of the tragedy because I have smacked my kids, causing them a short, sharp pain!!!!!!!! Have never injured them though, but you make no differentation at all. Perhaps I should go to the police station now and turn myself in?

[Grahameeboy]

Absolutely agree. Those kids are violent or disruptive because the parents failed to effectively set limits to their behaviour. It really is that simple.

Some kids invariably respond to simple no/yes statements and some don't, some are teachable using exclusively positive reinforcement techniques and some aren't. I'd suggest most (boys in particular) occasionally need negative concequences to reinforce behavioural lessons. And make no mistake, the effect of Bradford's ill-considered piece of bullshit, (should one be so irresponsible as to fail to ignore it as required), is to remove a vital component of the tools nescessary to raise well behaved kids.

Sorry I cannot agree that the Bill is bullshit to remove parents tools..like all tools they can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

[devnull]

Sorry I cannot agree that the Bill is bullshit to remove parents tools..like all tools they can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

A defibrillator can be dangerous in the wrong hands. So can insulin.
By that reasoning, these lifesaving things available to us should be banned as well?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

The "tools" aren't the problem. It comes back to personal responsibility. Something that is discouraged in the current social environment. Those of us that say this out loud are labelled "religious fundamentalists"

But what the name-callers are missing is something more basic - our whole society is based on "religious" values. By that I don't mean "attend this church" or "worship that god". More like the "thou shalt not kill" type stuff i.e. Commandments

Until we drop the "no responsibility" bullshit, and the govt gets its act together with things like stopping making teen pregnancy a valid career choice, it's not going to change

[Grahameeboy]

A defibrillator can be dangerous in the wrong hands. So can insulin.
By that reasoning, these lifesaving things available to us should be banned as well?

No silly. They are used by trained an qualified medical professionals. Yes mistakes will be made but parents are different. They often have self interest motives.

Sorry, I don't buy that.

The "tools" aren't the problem. It comes back to personal responsibility. Something that is discouraged in the current social environment. Those of us that say this out loud are labelled "religious fundamentalists"

No it is not. The Bill sends a message to remind us that parents have a personal responsiblity.

But what the name-callers are missing is something more basic - our whole society is based on "religious" values. By that I don't mean "attend this church" or "worship that god". More like the "thou shalt not kill" type stuff i.e. Commandments

Not a lot wrong with that though. What other values should we use?

Until we drop the "no responsibility" bullshit, and the govt gets its act together with things like stopping making teen pregnancy a valid career choice, it's not going to change

I agree, lets stop paying ACC to drunk drivers and passengers and apply contributory negligence to ACC claimants.......and send a message that society says we must take personal responsibility like you have said earlier........is teen pregnancy a career choice?

.................

[MSTRS:Me]

They often have self interest motives.
And kids don't ?

No it is not. The Bill sends a message to remind us that parents have a personal responsiblity.
The parents who aren't a problem don't need to be reminded. And those that are a problem - well, legislate all you like...ha!!

But what the name-callers are missing is something more basic - our whole society is based on "religious" values. By that I don't mean "attend this church" or "worship that god". More like the "thou shalt not kill" type stuff i.e. Commandments
I've often stated that very thing in these forums

........is teen pregnancy a career choice?
Oh yes...you must led a fairly sheltered life. There are whole families out there who make their living this way.

[devnull]

I don't believe the bill does send a message.

Chester Borrows bill did - it set very rigid guidelines, and was good, well-written law.

Instead, we ended up with an amendment that allows abusers to get away with more than what they could under the original section. Bradford's bill exclusively bans "correction", nothing else i.e. bad law.

The original applied a measurement based on whether your peers would have done the same in the circumstances presented to the court.
A similar law (that uses the same measurement) in the US is called the "Good Samaritan Law". It protects people from being sued for helping an injured person. Again, they are protected IF their actions are deemed to be reasonable under the conditions i.e. another person, with the same level of skill, would have done the same.

I do think that the ACC laws need overhauling. It's being used to milk the taxpayer, but not provide the services and compensation that it was meant to. But because of it, you can't sue, thus making it impossible for people to recover medical expenses and lost wages.

Yes, sadly teen pregnancy is now a valid career choice. As long as you can pop out kids, the govt will pay. An overhaul of the welfare system is long overdue. We don't want people dependent on the state; we want independent people that can think for themselves, take responsibility for themselves....

[Mom]

I do think that the ACC laws need overhauling. It's being used to milk the taxpayer, but not provide the services and compensation that it was meant to. But because of it, you can't sue, thus making it impossible for people to recover medical expenses and lost wages.

Yes, sadly teen pregnancy is now a valid career choice. As long as you can pop out kids, the govt will pay. An overhaul of the welfare system is long overdue. We don't want people dependent on the state; we want independent people that can think for themselves, take responsibility for themselves....

Love your work! So off topic it is not funny............but really worth discussing........want to start a thread?

[Grahameeboy]

........is teen pregnancy a career choice?
Oh yes...you must led a fairly sheltered life. There are whole families out there who make their living this way.

No I have not just did not realise it was a problem in the NZ....it was a while back in UK and still is but there was a real bad phase..........

[devnull]

Love your work! So off topic it is not funny............but really worth discussing........want to start a thread?

Hehe... did drift a wee bit off there, didn't I?

Should start a thread on what's wrong with the govt & how to fix it

[Mom]

Hehe... did drift a wee bit off there, didn't I?
Should start a thread on what's wrong with the govt & how to fix it

I DARE you.............LOL


ps: please dont!

[Skyryder]

I was going to leave this one alone but I can not leave your comment.

A few for questions for you...Can you give us an indication of your age, and whether you actually have children, or have ever been responsible for the parenting of children?


In your eyes I am part of the tragedy because I have smacked my kids, causing them a short, sharp pain!!!!!!!! Have never injured them though, but you make no differentation at all. Perhaps I should go to the police station now and turn myself in?

I am 63 years of age have two girls. I spent close on twenty years as the home parent while my wife worked. Both girls have uni degress and consider each their friend. On that basis I consider that my parenting skill are second to none.

Please reread my post. I said that the society approves of inflicting pain on children. My comments were not directed to one indavidual as you seem to imply. I might add that is was not that long ago that our society aproved the beating of the wife as she was considered to be the property of the husband. Marrage vows explicity said Love Honour and Obey. Thankfully that practice is no longer tolerated and indeed in the future the arguments that are put forward today for 'smacking' children will also belong in the same rubbish bin.

Skyryder

[MSTRS:Me]

We don't want people dependent on the state; we want independent people that can think for themselves, take responsibility for themselves....

This is precisely what Labour and it's sycophants wants. And they've had it for too long.