Racism on KB Forum

[ManDownUnder]

What is racism if NOT racial pride? What is religious fanatism if not religious pride? What is sexism if not pride in a certain way of sexual observance?

Not having a go - but I personally see a significant difference.

I see racism as derogatory, and exclusive, Putting someone up or giving them advantage based on race (i.e. excluding those potential benefits to others).

Racial pride - having pride in one's race) is an intrinsic thing - having a sense and understanding of your own history, and that of your race - the pool of people from which you come, and the culture you more than likely enjoy.

I see that pride as something to share for anyone so interested. If they're not then no problem. It's celebrating differences (GOD that sounds cheesy) rather than starting fights because of them

[James Deuce]

That's not race MDU, that's culture you are describing.

[MisterD]

That's not race MDU, that's culture you are describing.

S'right. I'm pretty much ambivalent about race, tribe is where it's at.

[James Deuce]

I knew you Mods were tribal.

[MisterD]

I knew you Mods were trouble.

Heh heh heh...

[Mikkel]

The Four Agreements

1. Be Impeccable With Your Word

2. Don't Take Anything Personally

3. Don't Make Assumptions

4. Always Do Your Best

5. Don't do today what you can postpone until tomorrow.
5a. Exception: Why wait for the weekend - get drunk today!

Racial pride - having pride in one's race) is an intrinsic thing - having a sense and understanding of your own history, and that of your race - the pool of people from which you come, and the culture you more than likely enjoy.

History is what was done - real actions of consequence. There's a difference between a) taking a small amount of pride in the fact that your ancestors laid down their lives to ensure a principle such as freedom of speech or put their backs into building a rich society and b) saying "I'm and proud of it". Pride stems from a feeling of being superior - at least that is the only pride I have encountered so far. But hey, fuck me, I'm just a young and stupid foreigner...

[ManDownUnder]

Pride stems from a feeling of being superior - at least that is the only pride I have encountered so far

OK - that's where we seem to differ. To me pride isn't a feeling of being superior, it's a feeling of internal strength and satisfaction. It doesn't mean I'm better than anyone else (that'd be "smug" in my books).

Looked it up and it sounds like you may referring to definition 2 below (interestingly it's one I don't ascribe to... hence my commentary above... which I will lay bare for completness' sake).

I'm more then #1, #3 and #4 (from www.dictionary.com)


proud Audio Help/praʊd/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[proud]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationadjective, -er, -est, adverb

–adjective

1.	feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often fol. by of, an infinitive, or a clause).

2.	having, proceeding from, or showing a high opinion of one's own dignity, importance, or superiority.

3.	having or showing self-respect or self-esteem.

4.	highly gratifying to the feelings or self-esteem: It was a proud day for him when his son entered college.

5.	highly honorable or creditable: a proud achievement.

6.	stately, majestic, or magnificent: proud cities.

7.	of lofty dignity or distinction: a proud name; proud nobles.

8.	Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. pleased; happy: I'm proud to meet you.

9.	full of vigor and spirit: a proud young stallion.

10.	Obsolete. brave.

[MisterD]

Pride stems from a feeling of being superior - at least that is the only pride I have encountered so far. But hey, fuck me, I'm just a young and stupid foreigner...

There's a lot of difference between "a feeling of being superior" and having the pride to be able to look any bugger in the eye and not feel that they are in any way better than you....

[ManDownUnder]

That's not race MDU, that's culture you are describing.

Agreed, but culture is associated with/by a defined group. The group may be defined by race, employment, religious or other commonalities.

[James Deuce]

Agreed, but culture is associated with/by a defined group. The group may be defined by race, employment, religious or other commonalities.

You're picking race as the major defining aspect. It's the least important. It's just a visual clue that increasingly leads to incorrect conclusions.

[Finn]

It's just a visual clue that increasingly leads to incorrect conclusions.

Like false arrests?

[ManDownUnder]

You're picking race as the major defining aspect. It's the least important. It's just a visual clue that increasingly leads to incorrect conclusions.

Disagree, on three grounds.

One - I am not choosing race as the defining aspect, I'm saying it is a defining aspect.

Two - culture is defined in a number of ways... one of which I like - "The way we do things around here". In my family an aspect of that culture is how we dine. We each have our seat at the table - the same one each time. We never really workwed out who would sit there or go through a raionale at all - we simply sit where we sat last time for some reason - it's just the way we do things.

Likewise at work.

Groups of people (Let's pick Maori to be topical) have had hundreds of years in relative isolation. They historically had ways of doing things that were refined over hundreds of years but done so in relative isolation.

Consequently the Maori culture is very real, with race being a defining factor.

I'm a kiwi - and proud of it. It's part of who I am, part of my internal definition. While I'm not Maori I do identify with the Maori culture in part, espcially when overseas (I was in a hotel in North Amercia a while back and hear a Waiata start off at another table...! It blew me away and made me feel right at home... and very very proud to be associated with it).

Three - I'd say race is not just a visual clue. That's a hard one to argue given the mixing of races through intermarriage etc (esp. in the last 150 years or so - globally). I do accept your point at face value though.

[Mikkel]

MDU - I find that several of the definitions from the dictionary has a negative ring to them.

Besides it's not just the dictionary definition that matters - it's also very much about what the individual places in that definition.

If you consider the "White pride" movement I'm sure you can see my point.

[imdying]

Bunch of bloody crackers the lot of ya

[ManDownUnder]

MDU - I find that several of the definitions from the dictionary has a negative ring to them.

Really? Which ones?

Besides it's not just the dictionary definition that matters - it's also very much about what the individual places in that definition.

If you consider the "White pride" movement I'm sure you can see my point.

Loud and clear on that one - tis a good example!