Bikers collide with Police car in Buller Gorge (1 December)

**slimjim** · 5th December 2007, 08:12

MD, Well Done, Col

**Paul in NZ** · 5th December 2007, 08:18

Nothing is ever totally black and white apart from magpies and even they have strange coloured bits.

Like most people I was pretty ticked off when I read that article as well. It seemed pretty obvious the police car driver screwed up big time and made a nearly fatal mistake yet I'm also cynical enough to realise that ALL of us;

1. Will project our own actions in a relatively favourable light.
2. In a state of shock - say daft things.
3. Behave stupidly at times.

The job of the courts is to see through all this, determine the facts and determine responsibility.

In my own life - I have made many stupid decisions, often while I'm working. For example, I used to do a LOT of live power connections. Not poofy household power but great big juicy power cables with a LOT of 'splat' factor behind them. These are usually safe as houses but lets just say - there have been times when things didn't exactly go to plan.... I musta done hundreds and hundreds of these joints and yet a couple of times I was not as careful as I could have been.... People could have been hurt.... I was lucky.

I'll bet that officer could have been faced with the decision to turn and pursue 1000 times and 999 times he may have made a different decision but this time - he didn't - bad things happened - the court will decide if he needs to face the consequences.

That means the man potentially screwed up - Go to any wrecking yard in this country - visit the back of any bike shop - talk to panelbeaters or insurance brokers - people screw up EVERY day - often with worse consequences. It happens - we are human...

If you want to show you care - do something positive to help these people or is the only pleasure we get from anger and violence?

**Marmoot** · 5th December 2007, 08:23

The only reason why this becomes an issue is that IF it was an average joe doing the u-turn he would have been prosecuted in less than a few days. But since it was a cop, they have investigations, time delays, political washouts, etc.

Meanwhile the situation is the same: someone did a u-turn while failing to ascertain clear situation (e.g., 200m visible road, etc? whatever the rule says)

Talking about a law for everyone...
Or are law-enforcers above the law?

I would've expected those responsible for upholding the law to be better than their subject at following the law itself.

**owner** · 5th December 2007, 11:00

cops fault bad driving

**Marmoot** · 5th December 2007, 11:12

Originally Posted by owner

cops fault bad driving

cop's bad driving? or motorcyclists' bad driving?

**terbang** · 5th December 2007, 13:13

Its all about personal responsibility and professionalism. In my job, if I screw up, then I most likely die along with a lot of others in a very publiuc fashion. That tends to make me and my kind rather cautious and responsible in our jobs, no matter what the desire or heat of the moment tells us.. So we naturally tend to put the word SAFETY very high (at the top) of all decisions. A good incentive I reckon...
Do the words "orchestrated lytinay of lies" jolt any memories? Organizations try to wriggle out of their responsibilities, pay good money for spin and to divert the blame onto some poor minion at the bottom of the pile. My guess is the poor cop (stupid, but possibly inadequatly trained, cop) will get shafted and the speeding bikers will also get shafted. We'll hear no more while the latent failures, possibly being police chase policies or a novel quota system, behind this accident remain intact.

**jimbo600** · 5th December 2007, 13:21

Originally Posted by scumdog

The 'stuff' stuff is all fact?? Wow!

Well it was in colour and everything. Must be true.

**orange dog** · 5th December 2007, 13:34

MD, All the best to you and your mates, I feel sick everytime I think about it.

**orange dog** · 5th December 2007, 13:45

As Bikers often ride in groups I would have thought Police driver training would include 'checking to make sure the lead motorcycle was not a part of a larger following group' let alone using common sense when doing a u-turn on a relatively narrow and turning country road.
Still... I bet the cop is feeling pretty sick too. I just hope this hard learnt lesson saves others in the future.

**White trash** · 5th December 2007, 14:09

MD, good on ya for the post mate, it sheds a little light on a simply horrible event. I bet you're feeling pretty shitty right now.

Please pass on my regards to B when you see him.

**Skyryder** · 5th December 2007, 14:21

Originally Posted by Marmoot

cop's bad driving? or motorcyclists' bad driving?

I'll try and answer the question.

The injured rider claimed immediately after the accident, that the officer said he was speeding. This needs to be addressed as it now appears that the cop is going to try and blame the bikers that crashed into the car.
It has been reported that the officer was in pursuit of another biker and called off the chase. It is not public knowledge if the chase was called off and the cop reset his radar only to have it go off on another biker heading towards him or he called off the chase in respect of the oncoming biker allegedly speeding. There is only two possibility for a radar speed record. Either it was still preset on the original chase or the cop had turned it off and had recorded the oncoming biker.

Either way at the point of the u turn the cop is on record as saying there was nothing coming (from behind) so he commenced the turn. On this basis the radar would not have been able to record the speed of the first victims bike. The injured rider has claimed that he was cruising in between 90 to 95k’s. So the cop would have had to get a visual speed reading all while commencing a three point turn which is different as originally reported: a u-turn as in one single maneuver. Now I am an experienced road user. I don’t know if I have more experience that the cop in question but one thing I do know is that it is impossible to estimate the accurate speed of oncoming vehicles. Yes you can make judgment calls in respect of estimated time for you to get clear of say an intersection with oncoming traffic but there is no way that you can get an accurate fix visually so as to be able to judge speed accurately. There are physically optical reasons why this is so. SO HOW DID THE COP KNOW THAT THE ONCOMING CRASHED BIKER WAS SPEEDING?

The cop fucked up and his first response was to protect himself. That I can understand. What I find difficult to understand is when that support is based only as a colleague. I have a great deal of respect for many officers but when their support is only based on being a collegue they need to seriously question their ethics.
Skyryder

**bell** · 5th December 2007, 15:50

Policeman in Buller crash back on patrol
The Nelson Mail | Wednesday, 05 December 2007

The Blenheim police officer at the centre of a serious crash with two motorcyclists was back on full duty on Wednesday, while one of the riders remained in a critical condition in hospital.

Senior Sergeant Tony Bernards of Nelson police said Sergeant Tony Bridgman returned to work with the Marlborough highway patrol on Wednesday after he was placed on sick leave immediately after Saturday's Buller Gorge accident.

An investigation, which would look at the scene, the crash, and the actions of Mr Bridgman and the Wellington motorcyclists, was continuing and was being overseen by the Independent Police Conduct Authority.

Mr Bernards hoped to have some findings in about three weeks.

Police had spoken to one of the motorcyclists, Brent Russell, who was Wednesday morning in a stable and comfortable condition in Nelson Hospital.

They had not spoken to the other rider, Marty Collins, who was in a critical condition in Wellington Hospital's intensive care unit.

Mr Russell said from his Nelson Hospital bed on Tuesday that he saw the police patrol car in his path as he straightened his motorbike out of the Buller Gorge corner, near where the crash happened.

"I can remember thinking, `What the hell do I do here?'," he said.

Unable to brake, Mr Russell's $32,000 Italian bike hit the patrol car's front wheel, catapulting him over the bonnet and 10m down the road. He landed on a grass verge, breaking his pelvis, smashing his right arm and ripping the end off his right thumb.

Police said the accident happened when a patrol car was turning to pursue a speeding motorcyclist.

Mr Russell, 57, said police needed to address the safety aspects of their pursuit policy.

He questioned the logic of an officer doing a three-point turn on the narrow road to pursue a vehicle for the sake of a possible $300 speeding fine.

Besides their serious injuries, the crash wrote off his 2007 Benelli 900 motorcycle and Mr Collins' 2005 Ducati 999, as well as the new highway patrol vehicle.

Mr Russell and Mr Collins were with a group of motorcyclists who had been heading for the West Coast, stopping at Murchison before travelling through the Buller Gorge.

Mr Russell said the group was not bunched, and he and Mr Collins were cruising between 90kmh and 95kmh.

However, the trip came to a crashing end, about 8km down the gorge.

When his body finally tumbled to a stop, Mr Russell checked himself before taking off his helmet and gloves, without noticing the end of his right thumb was missing.

"The police officer came over and asked me if I was okay, and I asked him what the hell he was doing parked in the middle of the road," said Mr Russell.

"His response to me was that we were speeding."

Mr Russell said he had not had an apology from the police, who took a statement from him on Saturday when he was in intensive care.

A self-employed builder-electrician, who does not have income insurance, Mr Russell would also like to discuss some form of financial compensation with the police to help support his family over the next six months while he recovers.

Mr Bernards said a North Island motorcyclist had given a statement to Picton police on Tuesday in relation to the accident.

"We believe he may have been the motorcyclist clocked by the officer involved (in the crash)," said Mr Bernards.

**scumdog** · 5th December 2007, 15:55

Originally Posted by Marmoot

The only reason why this becomes an issue is that IF it was an average joe doing the u-turn he would have been prosecuted in less than a few days. But since it was a cop, they have investigations, time delays, political washouts, etc.

Meanwhile the situation is the same: someone did a u-turn while failing to ascertain clear situation (e.g., 200m visible road, etc? whatever the rule says)

Talking about a law for everyone...
Or are law-enforcers above the law?

I would've expected those responsible for upholding the law to be better than their subject at following the law itself.

Bollocks

Bollocks

and More Bollocks

Already you've made your mind up on part of the story and mentioned a shitload of semi truths/ myths. - fuckin hope I NEVER see YOU in a jury.

Nice frkn troll.

**SPman** · 5th December 2007, 15:57

Originally Posted by terbang

Its all about personal responsibility and professionalism. In my job, i........................................... intact.

It would be good if we could apply aviation standards of investigation and follow up, to traffic accidents,instead of immediately looking for someone to blame, to shift all responsibility, with everyone trying to cover their own arse.

The way it seems to be currently handled, situation scenarios and the reasons behind the causes of accidents like this are overlooked in the general shit slinging, blame laying, bun fight, that invariably happens. A little bit more of the "why did this happen and what can be done in future to prevent incidents like this, particularly in the actions of a professional driver", without immediately laying or trying to avoid blame, would surely help.
Look at the cold, hard facts, analyse how and why and work out responses to try to avoid the same thing happening again, in the real world.
When you start blaming people for actions which may or may not be avoidable under the circumstances, all you do is alienate everyone and leave more resentment and bad feeling, which works counter to the effect you are trying to achieve.

Remember the Polices handling of the Palmerston North air crash! The plane crashed - charge the pilot with several counts of manslaughter! An action which helped nobody and almost had a pilots revolt in NZ!

MD - thanks for the background - hope your mates are on the mend - it's not nice to come over a hill or around a corner and find the road full of turning car - god knows, it happens often enough, you'd think drivers would actually think, before they actioned!