Of footpaths & alcohol

[F5 Dave]

This was going to be posted as part of an ever expanding thread but decided it was far enough off topic to warrant its own post.
With Stonies precursor I will attempt to change streams mid horse;

. . .blah blah. . . but surely operate means having a vehicle on the footpath. You're still operating it, just without the engine running. Ok, maybe I should say illegal to have a motorvehicle on the footpath. Which is why you can't park on a footpath.

. . .

If you push your dirtbike to the local riding area you are unlikely to be done for it, but you may well be questioned if it is imagined that there are only illegal riding areas nearby. True/false?

I knew someone who went to a party & decided to drink a bit & forego riding home, but he didn’t really want to leave his bike there so him & a mate pushed it home along the footpath.

He got done for DIC.

Seems a bit unfair really, but maybe they considered that he would be riding it or had. (I’d put a hand on the engine if I were the cop)

In a similar manner if ever I sleep in my Van after a few drinks (theoretically you’d have to be parked on the road I guess) I hide the keys. I have heard of people getting done DIC after a search for the keys.

To add to this topic (What was I on about, footpaths or alcohol?) what does one think about the morning after alcohol testing?

I don’t believe I have ever driven drunk & think it is a seriously dumb idea to do so, so let’s take that as read. But after a good session the night before it may take quite some time to remove the alcohol from your system.

Presumably what you can’t process enters your bloodstream until it can.

The question is
1: How drunk (impaired) are you with a particular breath reading compared to the same reading 8 or so hours before?
2: As legally this is not a consideration, how late into the day would one expect to have to wait after a bender?

At major rallies there are often checkpoints in the morning. Seeing as a bunch of people get totally smashed the night before how often is this a problem?

2 points to consider: If you’ve been asleep surely the breath would be somewhat concentrated compared with what is in the blood (what about burps etc?). Next, recent studies have found that it is not the alcohol that gets you pissed, it is the brain’s reaction to alcohol in the bloodstream that releases enzymes in your brain that causes the neurons to misfire (or something like that Thank you BBC/Robert Winston).
This being the case how long does this last? It may become independent of the alcohol still in the system?


Spud etc whadayareckon?

Oh yeah don’t forget the footpath bit too.

[StoneChucker]

In a similar manner if ever I sleep in my Van after a few drinks (theoretically you’d have to be parked on the road I guess) I hide the keys. I have heard of people getting done DIC after a search for the keys.

Since I've read this off you, it's second hand information, and as such, no offense to you but in the interests of being fair/impartial, it may not be entirely accurate, or missing circumstances. IF it is exactly true, then I find that hideously unfair. How can you punish someone for making a mature decision to sleep it off, and not DUI / DIC.

what does one think about the morning after alcohol testing? I don’t believe I have ever driven drunk & think it is a seriously dumb idea to do so, so let’s take that as read. But after a good session the night before it may take quite some time to remove the alcohol from your system.
Presumably what you can’t process enters your bloodstream until it can

The way I understand it, is your blood absorbs a certain amount of alcohol, I suppose based on the frequency of your drinking, and what you drink. I would think that that amount of alcohol absorbed isn't really restricted *, hence getting alcohol poisoning if you overdo it (Your blood has reached a lethal level of alcohol / litre, a figure much higer than the 400mcg/l limit). So how long you took to recover to under the legal limit, would obviously depend on how much you had, and what you had (higer mcg/l takes longer to be removed from the blood). I know from experience, that you can still be drunk the morning, and day after a big bender the night before (seriously overdid it on my 18th, had a driving lesson the next day, stupid and young).
The way I see it, the only sure way to know if you're under the limit after a bender, is to carry and use those breath testing kits, and a reputable one at that. Another factor which makes a huge difference, is staying hydrated. The body uses water to flush the alcohol out, so the more you have (to a point), the faster you'll recover, and the better you'll feel.
As for the brain releasing enzymes, I would think they are only released while there is alcohol in the system, hence recovering after all the alcohol is removed (by your poor bloody liver )

Dave.
PS: The above/below is my own fuzzy logic, and in no way fact, all rights reserved
* from above: I assume alcohol is absorbed into the blood by osmosis (The movement of a substance, from an area of high concentration, to an area of lower concentration, through a semi-permeable membrane). This I gather would continue to happen, until the movement was restricted by the capacity of the blood network. But, as I said, you would die long before capacity became a problem.

[Frankie]

Most of the time if you are sleeping in a car drunk the cops will just take your keys off of you and tell you where they can be picked up in the morning...

Went to a party ooh uhm late last year... my step brother got pissed... i mean really pissed... he couldnt even walk lol... Eventually we halped him to his car so he could sleep and left some water and pizza on the front seats for him surely enough the cops came around and looked in the car... searched my step brother took the keys and left him with a note of where to get the keys later on

I think that is a good thing to do

That didnt stop him from hurling up a good 3 times on the back seats of his own car lol

[thehollowmen]

* from above: I assume alcohol is absorbed into the blood by osmosis (The movement of a substance, from an area of high concentration, to an area of lower concentration, through a semi-permeable membrane).

Just being a bit of a pedant... ain't that diffusion of alcohol? Osmosis is the movement of water against the concentration of disolved solutes...

[StoneChucker]

But Osmosis, as far as I know, isn't limited only to water..., and is the movement of such substance through.... yadda yadda yadda. Hey, I paid little attention in school, so I'm not too eager to argue this point I do however have plenty of time to waste at work, so believe me when I say I'll research it if need be

[ZorsT]

osmosis is the diffusion of water through a semi-permable cell membrane. If alcahol was diffusing through the same membrane, it would be called diffusion. Osmosis is only for the diffusion of water.

[F5 Dave]

Yes I agree these stories are 2nd hand in that in the best case the ‘perp’ was telling them, but I always believe it is better to learn from other people’s mistakes than attempt to make them all yourself.

Hence the thread & some cop input would be useful too. (if scumdog ever forgives me for that XN85 quip )

Another cute story:
At my old house many moons ago in residential suburbia the only flat in the street has a party. It goes on late & naturally the residents complain to the landlord enough to get them evicted soon after, small minded snobs.

Either way I am dropping off to sleep when I hear someone decide to do a burnout. It continues. & continues, & I’m thinking “Way to go guys. . . it’s not as if bikes don’t have a bad enough rep with middleclass suburbia that you have to make them angry enough to pull the letter paper out the next day”

It continues. BBRRRRRRRSCHHBRRR!! He’s going for the canvas, Can’t put my head down till it pops.

BOMMMBA! Dead Silence. Thanks goodness. Sleep.


Anyways, my friend (& next door neighbour) was at the party (hey why didn’t I get an invite anyway?) but it wasn’t a bike doing a smokie after all. Some turkey had got totally S.faced & found the keys his friends had taken off him, got into his car & started it up.

Fell into drunken stupor. Time went by. Rolled over & planted foot on throttle. This didn’t wake him & mommy’s virtually new Honda revved for Africa. His friends tried to open the locked door & rouse him but to no avail.

Bang

Imagine telling that to mummy? I don’t think a mechanic’s report could miss the abuse. Hahaha.

‘Cept it isn’t real funny that this chap could have got on the road & killed someone.

Maybe this story isn’t so cute.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Presumably what you can’t process enters your bloodstream until it can.

The question is
1: How drunk (impaired) are you with a particular breath reading compared to the same reading 8 or so hours before?
2: As legally this is not a consideration, how late into the day would one expect to have to wait after a bender?

At major rallies there are often checkpoints in the morning. Seeing as a bunch of people get totally smashed the night before how often is this a problem?

2 points to consider: If you’ve been asleep surely the breath would be somewhat concentrated compared with what is in the blood (what about burps etc?). Next, recent studies have found that it is not the alcohol that gets you pissed, it is the brain’s reaction to alcohol in the bloodstream that releases enzymes in your brain that causes the neurons to misfire (or something like that Thank you BBC/Robert Winston).
This being the case how long does this last? It may become independent of the alcohol still in the system?

The liver of *any* person (man or woman and size doesnt matter), can process 1 standard drink per hour. No more, no less. Any excess goes into the bloodstream, and stays there, thus drunkenness. The brain's reaction to this I dont know a lot about, but I expect that it will stop as the alcohol disappears. (Then again, I sometimes wonder if my neurons ever fired properly in the first place) There is also acclimitisation - hence some people can drink more than others before they become incoherent.

This would suggest that some are more capable of driving over the limit than others, but I wouldnt like to take the chance....

So, to be under the limit, you MUST allow 1 hour for every standard drink that you had. If you had 5 beers at the end of the night, you have to allow 5 hours for processing. If you had a beer an hour, you will still be "under the limit", with no blood alcohol

What I would like to know is the relationship between blood and breath alcohol levels, and how long after I've had a drink do they become equal?

[vifferman]

The liver of *any* person (man or woman and size doesnt matter), can process 1 standard drink per hour. No more, no less. Any excess goes into the bloodstream, and stays there, thus drunkenness.
....So, to be under the limit, you MUST allow 1 hour for every standard drink that you had. If you had 5 beers at the end of the night, you have to allow 5 hours for processing. If you had a beer an hour, you will still be "under the limit", with no blood alcohol

Not quite true: body mass does enter into the equation, due to blood volume, fat mass, etc. In general, women have a higher fat to body mass index, so weight for weight, they can cope with less alcohol per hour than a man.
Another point: quite probably the body's metabolic rate slows down when you're asleep / comatose, so the rate of processing may be reduced. Also, this is assuming a healthy liver, not one affected by hepatitis or the like, and that the person doesn't have some problem such as Gilbert's disease, where their body doesn't produce all the enzymes and such needed to remove toxins such as alcohol.
Interesting note: Your body converts the alcohol to various things, including ketones. The ketones are one of the things that make you feel crappy the next morning, which is why drinks that are 'naturally' high in ketones to begin with (like red wine) can give you a worse hangover than some other liquids.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Not quite true: body mass does enter into the equation, due to blood volume, fat mass, etc. In general, women have a higher fat to body mass index, so weight for weight, they can cope with less alcohol per hour than a man.

That only means that men get less drunk per volume of alcohol.

Liver alcohol processing is size/sex irrelevant, so everyone processes alcohol at the same rate, but some are more affected by a same volume in the bloodstream/body

[sAsLEX]

Liver alcohol processing is size/sex irrelevant, so everyone processes alcohol at the same rate, but some are more affected by a same volume in the bloodstream/body

So you are suggesting, regardless of size/sex/race etc that our livers are one and the same in processing wise??? Find it hard to believe with the diversity of people you see around.

[Posh Tourer :P]

thats exactly it. 1 standard drink per hour.

Of course there will be a little bit of variability, but nothing major....

Its only different races/sexes, not different species - liver is fairly vital, so you can expect it to be fairly similar, with low variation (for a number of reasons to do with genetics)

[F5 Dave]

Sorry dude, surly some misconception here. If you watched that DocNZ about women drinking they went on at some length how women biologically could not process alcohol like men. Yet the problem is these days they are trying to drink for drink with Men which sadly they cannot get away with.

What about 'me footpaths?

[Posh Tourer :P]

liver is not the be-all and end-all of alcohol processing. There are lots of other factors affecting how much you are affected by alcohol - in most of those other factors, men do better at handling it ie men are better at handling alcohol in the bloodstream/brain for some reason, but we are all the same at processing toxins.

Your footpaths are gonna have to wait until someone else manages to wrestle control of the thread off me. Or everyone agrees about the alcohol....

[sAsLEX]

something i have read before is because al of us redneck brittish decendants have been storing food in alcohol, drinking beer etc for centuries that we have built up a considerable tolerance to the stuff.

Where other cultures only recently introduced to the stuff get hit harder by the old bottle.