Have you done your wills and EPAs?

[Hitcher]

It's far too easy to criticise a trustee organisation...whether it is Public Trust, Guardian, or Perpectual...

Indeed you are right. That's why taking care of one's estate is not something that should be taken lightly or sold off unthinkingly to somebody who offers to "do it for nothing".

[imdying]

I can tell you now, the Public Trust are fucking crooks. The amount of innocent people that have to resort to taking the PT to court to get 'your word is law' enforced is fucking ridiculous. Take it from someone who has the inside word, nobody at the courts would be fucked in the head enough to use them... and they get to see both sides of the story.

[Edbear]

Well considering the danger of our hobby, a biker forum is probably quite appropriate to remind people to protect themselves and their families by having a will and EPA before (although hopefully not) an accident may happen!

Perzackly!

Have all three, family trust, wills, and epas did them all earlyer this year when upgraded the house.

Good on you!

I've been meaning to get this sorted. Can you recommend anyone in Wellers.

What about those do it yourself will kits? Are they any good?

Last time we used one we bought from Paper Plus! They are legal, but if anyone wants I can email information for you to read through before going ahead.

This statement is misleading...and it should not be used to advertise your service!

While the estate administration costs may quite possibly get up to 10% (perhaps even more), your reference on Public Trust is inappropriate.

Also, dying intestate does NOT automatically mean Public Trust is automatically appointed to adminster the deceased estate.

This topic is highly sophisicated and should be treated with care.

I agree, but as I said, I'm not making any money from this. I do feel it is important enough to talk about, though, and if I help anyone avoid a nasty surprise, it's enough for me. I am not yet an expert, but we have legal experts available for advice. As I said, we don't charge, so anyone can freely approach us.

Sorry but this looks like blatant trolling for work. Your points are good but seeking work in this way is unprofessional.

See above response. Thanks for your input.

The last thing you want is the Public Trust administering your will, either by accident or design. By all means make a will, but don't get suckered into the "free" service that the Public Trust promotes. If your will is currently with the Public Trust, revoke it and make another one.

We did a while ago. Once we saw they were going to charge 10% we redid our wills as per above. Since atarting work here, we are now going to update them and have Jonathan Cron review our trust as well.

Well, for starters, the PT's "free" service isn't. Yes, there's no charge for making a will, but it doesn't cost that much for a lawyer to craft something that meets your needs, and a lawyer will generally throw in an Enduring Power of Attorney agreement for nothing. If you're worried about cost, there are a bunch of DIY will kits that can be downloaded off the net and which are quite "legal" and proper (just make sure that your next of kin and any other beneficiaries are aware that you have one and where to find it).

The PT makes its money by administering estates i.e. the legal affairs and assets of dead people. It does this in a manner that works best for the PT, rather than for the beneficiaries of the dead person. I have seen too many examples of PT administered estates where the outcome would not have been what the dead person wished and, in some cases, not what they had communicated to their families as being their wish.

Despite what the PT may claim in its marketing, your word isn't always "law", and you should get sound legal advice when making a will to ensure that what you wish to do is possible or non-contestable.

My personal view as well.

I appreciate the responses and the input from those of you who know something about this. If anyone wants to find out anything I'd be happy to meet. Although I am personally not an expert to give qualified advice on these legal matters, we have qualified experts available in every area. An example would be, as mentioned, Jonathan Cron, director of New Zealand Trustee Services Ltd. and an advisor to IRD, authorised, (and the only company), to do IRD audits. That he flies up from Chch each fortnight for Lighthouse gives some idea of the standing of this company. Lighthouse clients can see him free of charge. We are open and happy to answer any questions.

My personal role is in personal and business risk insurance, and as a salaried adviser I am not a commission based salesman. My role will expand as I gain further qualifications, but my interest is in helping people ensure they have what they want, not what I can sell them. Now, before any brokers here get up in arms, I know there are honest and ethical brokers around if you know where to find them, ( I went to Jetboy for my bike insurance), but no matter how honest, for most, their income is soley commission-dependent. So when we review a client's situation, if they have the best in place, we can reassure them of that. We find many people don't know what they've got, and some are paying good money for very little.

[Donor]

ACK!

I really ought to get one of them fangled will things done...

Does it hurt?

[steveb64]

Well, for starters, the PT's "free" service isn't. Yes, there's no charge for making a will, but it doesn't cost that much for a lawyer to craft something that meets your needs, and a lawyer will generally throw in an Enduring Power of Attorney agreement for nothing. If you're worried about cost, there are a bunch of DIY will kits that can be downloaded off the net and which are quite "legal" and proper (just make sure that your next of kin and any other beneficiaries are aware that you have one and where to find it).

The PT makes its money by administering estates i.e. the legal affairs and assets of dead people. It does this in a manner that works best for the PT, rather than for the beneficiaries of the dead person. I have seen too many examples of PT administered estates where the outcome would not have been what the dead person wished and, in some cases, not what they had communicated to their families as being their wish.

Despite what the PT may claim in its marketing, your word isn't always "law", and you should get sound legal advice when making a will to ensure that what you wish to do is possible or non-contestable.

I'll agree with that! Having had to jump through all the stupid hoops that are required to be jumped through over the past year (after my mum passed without leaving a will - despite all thinking she had...). None of the lawyers we spoke with had ANYTHING complementary to say about the Public Trust.
IIRC - the 'free' wills get paid for by exorbitant administration fees... can't remember the percentages (but 40 keeps tapping on the window), as I got a letter of administration organised - but my lawyers were REAL happy that Mum hadn't signed up for one of PT's wills.

And my personal experience with them was anything but satisfactory after I used their 'property management' service to rent out my house (in Wellington - Holloway Rd - so VERY central) while I was overseas. What a fecking joke. ALL the outside gardens were completely demolished, and the place was only occupied for about 50% (or less) of the time we were (2yrs) away.

[Edbear]

ACK!

I really ought to get one of them fangled will things done...

Does it hurt?

Not much... Everyone over 18 should have one and an EPA is just as important. I can send you the info for you to read what's required, no obligation. You can then approach a lawyer or give us a call, though it will probably be cheaper through us. Or, if you're confident after reading the info you can get yourself a "do it yourself" one.

They aren't expensive to do, average around $100-$200 to be done professionally. Though it depends on whether you are doing anything else at the same time, say setting up a trust with Jonathan, or repackaging your insurances. There are ways to reduce costs.

[Winston001]

Ok Ed, I misinterpreted your intentions - my apologies.

Most solicitors do basic wills for no charge - and that is all most people need. The value of the work is about $200 when charged for.

Very few people need a professional trustee such as the Public Trust. It exists to administer estates when there are overseas assets, disabled children, long-term testamentary trusts, or a dysfunctional family who are guaranteed to scrap over everything. Even in those cases you don't necessarily need them.

The problem with the Public Trust is that they are a civil service bureaucracy with staff shifting around all of the time. They cannot provide personal service. They are a monolithic organisation with books of rules and they stick to them.

By contrast a solicitor lives or dies by the personal service they give their clients. An experienced estates lawyer will know families for decades, advising each generation, and will personally know a person who dies. That makes a helleva difference to the family when it comes time to sort out mum and dad's affairs.

[Winston001]

There are references to Will Kits from PaperPlus or online. Yes, absolutely, you should do this. Please!



For example - "I leave my roll-top desk to my biker niece Joni"




Hmmm.....so what about the certificate for 10,000 Fletcher Building shares in the bottom drawer? Luck young Joni!........




It'll provide years of work in litigation later on.

.

[Edbear]

Ok Ed, I misinterpreted your intentions - my apologies.

Most solicitors do basic wills for no charge - and that is all most people need. The value of the work is about $200 when charged for.

Very few people need a professional trustee such as the Public Trust. It exists to administer estates when there are overseas assets, disabled children, long-term testamentary trusts, or a dysfunctional family who are guaranteed to scrap over everything. Even in those cases you don't necessarily need them.

The problem with the Public Trust is that they are a civil service bureaucracy with staff shifting around all of the time. They cannot provide personal service. They are a monolithic organisation with books of rules and they stick to them.

By contrast a solicitor lives or dies by the personal service they give their clients. An experienced estates lawyer will know families for decades, advising each generation, and will personally know a person who dies. That makes a helleva difference to the family when it comes time to sort out mum and dad's affairs.

Thanks, and well put!

What brought it home to us was my wife's mother died last Saturday from a heart attack. While at 89 she had given us a few 'moments' and had been starting to concern us, she had always been fit and active. She was living on her own until three weeks ago when she finally decided it was time to go into a rest-home, after spending two weeks in hospital with severe chest pains. That experience had knocked her confidence and when the hospital recommended she go into a home she readily agreed.

She was only there two weeks! It's been a bit of a rough week for the family as you can imagine, she was a dear lady and well loved by all who knew her for her offbeat sense of humour and bubbly personality.

My wife and eldest Bro-in-law were executors and my wife was EPA, so it was very straightforward - she didn't have much, either. At a time of great stress and grief for the family, having the legal stuff in place can make things a lot easier.

If anyone has much of an estate and a few relatives, (You know the old saying, "Where there is a will, there're relatives...!), a family trust is a much more secure way of ensuring your wishes are carried out and can eliminate squabbling and challenges amongst the family. But whatever the case, a will and an EPA are essential!

[kave]

Make sure you get an 2 EPA's, one that covers property and one that covers personal care and welfare. I work in finance, and you wouldnt believe the number of people we get sending in PC & W EPA's and expecting to be able to manage someones investments with them.

[Edbear]

Make sure you get an 2 EPA's, one that covers property and one that covers personal care and welfare. I work in finance, and you wouldnt believe the number of people we get sending in PC & W EPA's and expecting to be able to manage someones investments with them.

Absolutely! You need both!

[HenryDorsetCase]

OK, disclosure first up.

I am a lawyer in public practise in Christchurch.

I do a lot of this type of asset protection/estate planning type of work.

I have been fascinated by some of the comments in this thread.

As far as I know, Public Trust do not charge a flat percentage of the value of an estate as a fee. I think they used to, but now its on an hourly basis, plus disbursements (costs incurred by them) same as I would charge.

Do people need a Will? Absolutely if you have shit that matters to you and want to have some input about what happens to it when you die.

Do people need Enduring Powers of Attorney? Yup, same reason: you are in a coma and your Attorney needs to make decisions/deal with stuff when you can't. You aren't dead, so your Will isnt relevant.

Does it cost money? It should. Having said that, if its easy, and I am doing something else for you then I might not charge you extra for doing simple wills and EPAs. If you are on your second marriage/relationship, or have complex affairs or whatever, damn right I will charge you.

How much does it cost? How long is that bit of string? It ranges from nil to sometimes thousands of dollars (you might have a business we have to shift shares about in, one or more pieces of real property to deal with, complex financial arrangements to undo, or re-do... whatever). hey, if it was simple, you'd do it yourself, right?

What about those Will kits? They might be OK. The absolutely critical thing in a Will is witnessing. If it isnt witnessed correctly it isnt valid, end of story. Oh, and there's a new Wills Act 2007 just about to come into effect. Cool, huh? (TBH not too many changes, but still).

Be a little wary of these specialist trust companies such as the one mentioned above. Not sure in what context they are qualified to do "IRD audits" ... of what? What they do, they do well enough, but from what I have seen, quite expensive, and often only part of the story (their part i.e. trust admin) but no estate or other asset planning done.

Ask yourself this question (it works in the context of property transactions, too): Who is the only person in this deal who is professionally qualified with book learning plus mandatory professional qualification, whose job it is to look after my interests, and my interests alone, in this particular deal?

how much is your peace of mind worth?

[HenryDorsetCase]

There are references to Will Kits from PaperPlus or online. Yes, absolutely, you should do this. Please!



For example - "I leave my roll-top desk to my biker niece Joni"




Hmmm.....so what about the certificate for 10,000 Fletcher Building shares in the bottom drawer? Luck young Joni!........




It'll provide years of work in litigation later on.

.

that one isnt so hard (there is a case on a similar point, cant remember the name) but in that situation she gets the desk only, contents fall into the residue. if the clause was "my roll up desk and its contents" then she is a winner.

[Edbear]

OK, disclosure first up.

I am a lawyer in public practise in Christchurch.

I do a lot of this type of asset protection/estate planning type of work....

....Be a little wary of these specialist trust companies such as the one mentioned above. Not sure in what context they are qualified to do "IRD audits" ... of what? What they do, they do well enough, but from what I have seen, quite expensive, and often only part of the story (their part i.e. trust admin) but no estate or other asset planning done.

Ask yourself this question (it works in the context of property transactions, too): Who is the only person in this deal who is professionally qualified with book learning plus mandatory professional qualification, whose job it is to look after my interests, and my interests alone, in this particular deal?

how much is your peace of mind worth?

Appreciate the input from one qualified. Good advice and pleased you have backed up my concerns.

No need to worry about Jonathan Cron and NZ Trustee Services Ltd. Anyone can check his company out very easily.

While Lighthouse use him and recommend him we are not in any way financially or legally associated. There is absolutely no financial advantage to me or Lighthouse by recommending his services. Our relationship with him is purely due to professional respect and friendship and the determination of the Lighthouse management to only use and recommend the top people in any sphere! (For another example, we use McVeigh - Flemming for legal advice and services). He'd be in our opinion the best guy in the country for accurate advice and proper set up for any family or commercial trust. I have met him several times now and he's not just a qualified expert, he's a genuine nice guy as well.

[pyrocam]

I am going to sort my will out this week, recent events serve as a reminder for such things.

Oh, and there's a new Wills Act 2007 just about to come into effect. Cool, huh? (TBH not too many changes, but still).

If anyone was interested in the 2007 Wills Act there is a summary of sorts here http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/m...+under+reforms


I called paper plus and they said they still stock the will kits and they are $14.99