Integrating into a foreign society

**Artifice** · 2nd November 2004, 23:36

yes you say, i would like a coffee. i dont want mocha-milky- frothy foregin stuff, what i want is coffee. but the bastards never ever advertise percolator coffee. its all i want :whimper: not sugar, not milk not froth :giggle: just caffiene inna cup. :wahoo: :wahoo:
oh yeah as to integrating, sometime the grandkids of the original emigre's go overboard with the lost culture trying to be what they think they have lost... of course this is usually from an out of context point of view.

**カワサキキド** · 2nd November 2004, 23:37

I have and want to again(after uni, need for the visas) live in a forein society
and I say when in Rome...
The locals are way more fun to hang out with

**カワサキキド** · 2nd November 2004, 23:42

Originally Posted by Artifice

yes you say, i would like a coffee. i dont want mocha-milky- frothy foregin stuff, what i want is coffee. but the bastards never ever advertise percolator coffee. its all i want :whimper: not sugar, not milk not froth :giggle: just caffiene inna cup. :wahoo: :wahoo:

Simple you just order a long... esspresso...black...straight...double.. ah f#ck it I'll just have water.

**scumdog** · 3rd November 2004, 01:49

Originally Posted by Warren

If you go to southland (Invercargill, Bluff etc) you may need to roll your rrrrr's, they have invented a new language down there.

I dropped my doughnut on my shirrrt.

No, no, it's "I drrropped my doughnut (not in the 70's obviously) on my shirrrt"

"Worrrse than that, it was my favourrrite rrred and yellerrr motorrrcycle rrrriding one I got frrrom my motherrr forrr Chrrristmas!!!"

**Bob** · 3rd November 2004, 03:12

Originally Posted by scumdog

No, no, it's "I drrropped my doughnut (not in the 70's obviously) on my shirrrt"

"Worrrse than that, it was my favourrrite rrred and yellerrr motorrrcycle rrrriding one I got frrrom my motherrr forrr Chrrristmas!!!"

Funny how every society has something like this. In the US, it is the deep south (Cue banjo playing and webbed-footed blind kids etc). Here in the UK, we have the Forest of Dean.

The FoD is truly beautiful country... but it is all a bit "In-Bred". The FoD is in Gloucestershire (where my wife comes from originally) - as a result, whenever we visit and I see the Forest mentioned in local papers, I normally start humming the theme from 'Deliverance' or Duelling Banjoes... and get told off!

Of course, my best one was when I saw this headline on the cover of the Gloucestershire Echo:

"JOBS CRISIS IN THE FOREST OF DEAN"

I instantly said "What's that then? Had to offer one to a non-relative?"

I had to duck fast...

**What?** · 3rd November 2004, 05:08

Originally Posted by カワサキキド

...and I say when in Rome...
The locals are way more fun to hang out with

Zackly. I'm with Winston: Fit in or fuck off.
Or, the longer version, "Yes, come to NZ, but do not expect that we will change our customs and laws to suit you, after all, would your government return the compliment?"

**MikeL** · 3rd November 2004, 06:59

Originally Posted by Jim2

a society that doesn't allow immigration to happen will find itself wondering why it is sliding down the standards of living index, or unable to trade their currency on financial markets, within a generation.
.

If economic considerations are paramount, why do we put any limits at all on immigration? Open the floodgates...

Living standards are not just measured by GDP, per capita income and the % of people with cellphones and Sky TV.

The whole debate about immigration, I believe, comes down to the question "Who's country is it anyway?" That is, cultural identity.

Unfortunately, as we've seen before on this forum, the response to such questions is usually an accusation of racism...

I still think it's a legitimate question that needs to be debated.

**jrandom** · 3rd November 2004, 07:08

Originally Posted by MikeL

immigration... comes down to the question "Who's country is it anyway?"

But, if English was their first language, it would probably come down to the question "Whose country is it anyway?"

(runs and hides)

**White trash** · 3rd November 2004, 07:19

Originally Posted by Kickaha

and lived in the Wellington area would I be required to play pool and get pissed on thursday nights at roqm in order to fully accepted as a member of society or would the different ethnic background make that impossible

Nothing's impossible. You'll just have to try real hard.

**vifferman** · 3rd November 2004, 07:33

Originally Posted by Warren

If you go to southland (Invercargill, Bluff etc) you may need to roll your rrrrr's, they have invented a new language down there.

I dropped my doughnut on my shirrrt.

If you listen really carefully to a Southerner, they don't really roll their Rs at all. What they do in fact, which makes their speech sound so weird, is put the R earlier in the word, and/or otherwise emphasize the R. It's kind of a bastardisation of the original Scottish rrrrolling of the R.
So "shirt" is pronounced "shrirt", "Southerner" sounds more like "Southrerner", "word" becomes more like "wrord". Very wreird...

Originally Posted by MikeL

Living standards are not just measured by GDP, per capita income and the % of people with cellphones and Sky TV.

Indeed. I think the whole nonsense about our country "needing a higher population to get the benefits this brings" is bogus. It means that we lose many of the things that gives NZ its character, and instead get population clustered around the main centres, increased crime, traffic problems, pollution, infrastructure not keeping up with rapid growth, people possible becoming more insular, etc etc.
Apart from cultural diversity (is this really globalisation? loss of the Kiwi persona?) what tangible benefits are there? Is it so bad NZ being a sleepy backwater, with low crime, friendly people, etc.? I don't think you could argue that NZ is backward, as we have been 'early adopters' of many of the trappings of modernity, like EFTPOS, smart cards, etc. Unfortunately, we also used to have one of the highest standards of educationin the world, lowest crime rates, lowest unemployment rates, etc. Not any more. And our rural lifestyle is disappearing, our pristine tourist spots are being subdivided and developed, our native species are under more threat of extinction than ever before, and our "clean green" image is just that - an image, not a reality, as we don't even effectively recycle stuff and can't even manage a decent sewerage system in parts of Auckland.

Sad, innit? :disapint:
[/rant mode]

**Blakamin** · 3rd November 2004, 07:56

I fitted right in.... they had VB when I got here

**Joni** · 3rd November 2004, 08:02

Originally Posted by Blakamin

I fitted right in.... they had VB when I got here

I didn't do that badly either... wherever people ride, Im happy!!! Now I just need a Black Label beer from SA!!

**James Deuce** · 3rd November 2004, 08:29

Originally Posted by MikeL

If economic considerations are paramount, why do we put any limits at all on immigration? Open the floodgates...

Living standards are not just measured by GDP, per capita income and the % of people with cellphones and Sky TV.

The whole debate about immigration, I believe, comes down to the question "Who's country is it anyway?" That is, cultural identity.

Unfortunately, as we've seen before on this forum, the response to such questions is usually an accusation of racism...

I still think it's a legitimate question that needs to be debated.

Absolutely. I'm not sure whether you and Firestormer (see above) are just testing me out or summit, by I think it is more indicative of a nation's culture than any discussion of immigration sparks a defensive comment about racism, and a cycle of backpedalling.

Immigration internal or external (interesting how internal migration was ignored, because it is just as important at shaping a culture as external immigrants) has always been the shaping force of humanity. Globablisation has existed in one form or another for at least 2500 years, thinking mainly of the mediterranean concept of the world and trade.

Immigration without serious debate about the type of society you are trying to create, at city, and national levels creates issues that take a generation or two to sort out.

I do however think that arguing against immigration because of race or religion, or seeming inability to integrate is faintly offensive, when you consider we are all immigrants or descended from people who belonged to different waves of migration. Immigration happens, the immigrants change, but so does the society that accepts them. Ignorant comments about "adopt our culture or fuck off", ignore the fact that immigratants provide contacts to their culture of origina that may take a couple of generations to mature, bu nonetheless establish lines of communication between societies that may not have considered each other natural parties.

I'm not referring to GDP when I discuss this point. I'm talking about creating and maintaining a society and culture that is a creative and challenging place to live, where people want to be. Individual satisfaction is more important than raw trade figures in the health of a society, whether that society has a collective or individualist mindset. Without migrants a country can easily become inward looking and convinced of the superiority of "their" own culture.

New Zealanders struggle to even accept that they have a unique culture.