AMCC Advanced Rider Training Day January 19th

[Keystone19]

Auckland Motorcycle Club is running another Advanced Riding Training Day. This day is open for all riders who want to improve their riding skills both on and off the track.

Location is Pukekohe Raceway.

Expert instructors are available on the day to assist with on track skills as well as suspension set up. These include Paul Pavletich and Vince Sharpe.

There is also a Theory night held Thursday Jauary 17th at the AMCC clubrooms in Ellerslie.

Registration form attached.

Look forward to seeing you all there.

[Shaun]

Auckland Motorcycle Club is running another Advanced Riding Training Day. This day is open for all riders who want to improve their riding skills both on and off the track.

Location is Pukekohe Raceway.

Expert instructors are available on the day to assist with on track skills as well as suspension set up. These include Paul Pavletich and Vince Sharpe.

There is also a Theory night held Thursday Jauary 17th at the AMCC clubrooms in Ellerslie.

Registration form attached.

Look forward to seeing you all there.

So who and what makes this a safe track to train people on then? That track is fucked

[PeteJ]

Well, Shaun, with the greatest of respect to your abilities, age, experience on track and onroad, injuries, and training to be a trainer, AMCC has:

1. People who have been Ministry of Transport certificated to train at advanced level,

2. People who have ben tutoring advanced rider training for more years than you have been riding (maybe including whoever first called you "Gremlin"; I dunno), and

3. The longest history of any motorcycling organisation with this track.

As to the circuit, yes, it has its dangers. Instructing people about the dangers of the circuit is a major part of the AMCC motivation to instruct at Pukekohe.

If you care to read the worldwide literature on rider training, you will discover that there is a school of thought of some 80 years' standing that the best venues to instruct are the ones that are difficult to ride on.

Perhaps if you share your reasons for asking your question, we can answer in a way that might make more sense to the public. Are you asking because you are newly setting yourself as a trainer and are trying to denigrate what you see as competition?

[sAsLEX]

If you care to read the worldwide literature on rider training, you will discover that there is a school of thought of some 80 years' standing that the best venues to instruct are the ones that are difficult to ride on.

That maybe so, but I bet there are few schools of thought that suggest training in a dangerous environment?


How many of our friends and colleagues have we seen seriously injured due to the woeful state of the safety elements of Puke?

[Shaun]

Well, Shaun, with the greatest of respect to your abilities, age, experience on track and onroad, injuries, and training to be a trainer, AMCC has:

1. People who have been Ministry of Transport certificated to train at advanced level,

2. People who have ben tutoring advanced rider training for more years than you have been riding (maybe including whoever first called you "Gremlin"; I dunno), and

3. The longest history of any motorcycling organisation with this track.

As to the circuit, yes, it has its dangers. Instructing people about the dangers of the circuit is a major part of the AMCC motivation to instruct at Pukekohe.

If you care to read the worldwide literature on rider training, you will discover that there is a school of thought of some 80 years' standing that the best venues to instruct are the ones that are difficult to ride on.

Perhaps if you share your reasons for asking your question, we can answer in a way that might make more sense to the public. Are you asking because you are newly setting yourself as a trainer and are trying to denigrate what you see as competition?

rrrr No Petej, that track is very dangerous from the left hander after the hair pin untill the middle of the front straight!!!!! and one of the instructors you mention saw the crash where a man now lives in wheel chair

As fas as trying to denigrate your efforts, PULL YOUR HEAD IN- I am and was genuinelly concerned for peoples safety, I am sure that the customer base will make there own choice of where to go and who with no matter what you or I could say

And your point 1 and 3 shows what a joke the job is, as if you have been the leeding club with this track, WHY HAVE YOU NOT MADE IT SAFER? also, if you think that Ministry of transport trained people are going to make our riders safer, perhaps you could get the same ones to teach there own drivers how to actually drive a car safely please!

No Distrespect to Vince and crew intended here, just the club

[Shaun]

That maybe so, but I bet there are few schools of thought that suggest training in a dangerous environment?


How many of our friends and colleagues have we seen seriously injured due to the woeful state of the safety elements of Puke?

EXACTUAALY

If I was the, that track would never get approvale to hold a race meeting


and that comes from some one who is prepared to race the roads, which are far more dangerous than Puke, but proper professional race tracks, have no exscuse to be dangerous,

[PeteJ]

Shaun, thanks for reassuring about your motives: we are all intent on helping safety of all riders. That's why I have been conducting advanced rider training courses since 1979, including running race riding schools in the 1980s at which among others Richard Scott and Simon Crafer instructed. That's close to a 30-year commitment in actually carrying out training, including completing courses in how to teach.

And, as you know, seeing the improvement in rider abilities and attitude, sometimes minute by minute, is pretty gratifying.

Now, about Pukekohe. Auckland Motorcycle Club is well aware of safety questions with this circuit, as a club probably more aware of more issues than any individual rider, since everyone reports their own concerns to the club.

But Puke is the closest circuit to Auckland, with all the demands for use that that brings, These demands that riders will want to ride there are not restricted to just AMCC - as you know, AMCC is not the only organisation that runs rider days there, and there are always bikes at open days, as well ("Mad Sunday" equivalents, if you will).

As I said earlier, our motivations include trying to assist riders learn how to use this circuit as safely as possible.

Who knows what Hampton Downs will bring.

[Shaun]

Now, about Pukekohe. Auckland Motorcycle Club is well aware of safety questions with this circuit, as a club probably more aware of more issues than any individual rider, since everyone reports their own concerns to the club.

If this is true then, why carry on using it? And if this is true and the club recognises it, why is our MNZ CEO being an instructor there?

But Puke is the closest circuit to Auckland, with all the demands for use that that brings, These demands that riders will want to ride there are not restricted to just AMCC - as you know, AMCC is not the only organisation that runs rider days there, and there are always bikes at open days, as well ("Mad Sunday" equivalents, if you will).

So does this make it OK to use a very unsafe Known to be track then, just because may?

As I said earlier, our motivations include trying to assist riders learn how to use this circuit as safely as possible.

I am sure it is, ( applause to all of you ) but that track needs to stop now, and the AMCC need to help stop it, and so does our MNZ as far as I am concerned

Who knows what Hampton Downs will bring.

A bunch a reving petrol heads having fun in a safe enviroment would be my guess after taking a big walk around there last week.

[PeteJ]

A bunch a reving petrol heads having fun in a safe enviroment would be my guess after taking a big walk around there last week.

Heh heh heh - sounds like all of us, huh? Let's hope.

And it'll doubtless have its own safety questions, too, which will show up with use, just as every circuit (and road) has. After all, SH2 Maramarua to Mangatawhiri, the press' favourite "killer road", leads there from the east.

[Shaun]

Heh heh heh - sounds like all of us, huh? Let's hope.

And it'll doubtless have its own safety questions, too, which will show up with use, just as every circuit (and road) has. After all, SH2 Maramarua to Mangatawhiri, the press' favourite "killer road", leads there from the east.

But what about the awnsers to the questions I asked you above please Petej

[PeteJ]

Sorry, Shaun, I thought you might have drawn the inference that Hampton Downs, SH2, and Pukekohe, just like everywhere else, are by and large as safe as the rider makes them.

Your very first succinct comment on this thread make clear that you personally are opposed to Pukekohe Park Raceway being used for anything at all. I do not doubt your personal sincerity on this point.

If one could make a risk-free motorcycling environment, then the trainers' assessment of a rider's hazard assessment would be impossible. And every advanced road riders' course I am aware of has a requirement for formal hazard assessment practice.

Risk is an interesting concept, say when applied to motorcycling: at one end of the scale you will have no risk of being injured by falling off if you never get on, and at the other end if you intend suicide and ride accordingly hurt will likely happen. Every rider every day makes choices about where on that continuum they want to be. Trainers should be helping them to be able to make informed choices.

[Shaun]

If there was no carrot daggled to entice people to this track, the risk would not exsist! But people and clubs would make no money either!

Thanks for your faith in my honesty!


At who's risk is this training assesment done at? the riders I would imagine, unless you get a fine or penalty after the ambulance has pelled some one of the walls there if shite happened, like it has MANY TIMES!

Your last comment, is like saying, if there were no drugs, there would be no drug dealers

[PeteJ]

We agree on many things, Shaun. However, we may need to differ on the relative priorities of chickens and eggs.

I guess my final remark on our little threadjack is that riders should have choices, and that applies to training courses as much as anything.

In the USA, lots of riders do several training courses eg Keith Code's schools, then a course at Freddie Spencer's, then some track-owner-run one, and so on. More perspectives can only help in informing for choices.

Further sidetrack, but a further point of agreement, I suspect, between you and me: In most of the professions, continuing education is an accepted necessity. It would be good if we could accept that for ourselves as motorcyclists. But...I would hate to see compulsion, because then we'd end up with unacceptable levels of control and direction from people who know damn-all about it.

Cheers

Pete

[Shaun]

Glad to see you have awnsered all my serious questions on here RE the safety aspect of Pukekohe for all the customers that you have advertised to on this free web site petej, I am sure they to will appreciate your awnsers.

Sorry mate, but a word game was not what we were doing here, we were having a very serious safety issue discussion, and that was not a thread Jack! it was a challenge from me to you guys for running such an event at a well known extremelly dangerous track

Even Paul Pav, our CEO of MNZ, will not awnser my direct questions to him about the safety of the track in generall, put to him today.

It is 2007, time to move on

[Shaun]

PS pete, how much do you get paid per day of instrunction there by the AMCC? or do you honestly do it for free because of your passion for teaching people how to be better and safer