YSS suspension brand?

[Shaun]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider. When Stroudy met his match last season ( Bugden ) his equipment was found to be a little wanting. ( Dont forget Tony Rees title in 05, however the ''allocation'' of it is viewed Tony was his match )For this season Stroudy has lifted his game and I wish him and all the other equipped riders who have chosen a product with backup the very best.

Dam, and that only took 3 days, you must be bloody busy mate, 05 O that's write, the courts decided that Tony won. So Suzuki asked Andrew to change brands, or did Andrew ask, but as you say Rob, best of British to them all

[Taz]

Robbie Phillis first choice was Ohlins but he wanted the Aussie distributor to virtually give them to him, so the door was politely closed.

Cannot answer directly about YSS but I wouldnt be surprised if many of the components are oh so close to Ohlins twin shock design, copied profusely over the years in both hemispheres.

A number of Thai companies have been committing copyright infringement and Ohlins have a full time staff member engaged in dealing with this insidious activity. 7% of the worlds economy is piracy, most of it coming out of the east.

Years ago WP ripped off the 1st generation Ohlins PDS design resulting in a court case that Ohlins comprehensively won.

Its easy to copy someone elses hard work and development that they incurred considerable cost in doing....

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.

[Shaun]

Robbie Phillis first choice was Ohlins but he wanted the Aussie distributor to virtually give them to him, so the door was politely closed.

Cannot answer directly about YSS but I wouldnt be surprised if many of the components are oh so close to Ohlins twin shock design, copied profusely over the years in both hemispheres.

A number of Thai companies have been committing copyright infringement and Ohlins have a full time staff member engaged in dealing with this insidious activity. 7% of the worlds economy is piracy, most of it coming out of the east.

Years ago WP ripped off the 1st generation Ohlins PDS design resulting in a court case that Ohlins comprehensively won.

Its easy to copy someone elses hard work and development that they incurred considerable cost in doing....

So the thai companies commiting copyright infringement, were doing shit like making shocks lock like there own brand, when they really were another brand, or some thing along those lines was it, incredible really eh Rob

[Sensei]

[Shaun]

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.

Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly






Nah, what he really is saying, is that Robbie never did a thing for Ohlin's, so why should they help him, hahaha----

[Shaun]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider.

You are probally write about that Robert, as Ray Clee the White Power importer is extremelly good at riding as well! and uses them himself to fantastic results

[Robert Taylor]

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.

You can be blissfully ignorant with your own comfort zone of interpretation, yes.

[Robert Taylor]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider.

You are probally write about that Robert, as Ray Clee the White Power importer is extremelly good at riding as well! and uses them himself to fantastic results

Granted, Ray is a great guy and a great rider. Also WP have a number of good products and also some downright average ones on much of the oem KTM stuff. Backup is just as important though, as in the end event the product is a tool to be worked with. You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

[Robert Taylor]

Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly

Seato used a box stock TTX36 at the Manfield nationals on his R1 to win Superbike leg 1 and smashed a long standing lap record. You used a box stock 46PRXLS at Ruapuna in the rain several seasons ago and comprehensively annihilated everyone. Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

There are no perfect settings, ever. You will concur with that.

[Robert Taylor]

Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly






Nah, what he really is saying, is that Robbie never did a thing for Ohlin's, so why should they help him, hahaha----

If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.

Ill get vilified by saying this... if I was able to play God and state who I wanted to win the title...

An Aussie using Ohlins or a Kiwi using WP? Its a no brainer to me.

[dickytoo]

If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.

i think he was talking about robbie phillis

[Robert Taylor]

i think he was talking about robbie phillis

My too hastened mistake, Robbie P didnt exercise the Ohlins option because he thought ( mistakenly ) that they should be given to him.

[Shaun]

You can be blissfully ignorant with your own comfort zone of interpretation, yes.

Or be the Rep of an alternative brand in a very small market place, they work well enough for Robbie to win on, so what is there problem please??

Sorry Rob, but Ohlin's is good, but the NOT the only Good product out there, there are cheaper just as good alternatives availlable, and you and I both know it

( PS, You did not awnser my question about people building shocks to look like what they are not, ie, copyrite issues and court offenses like the Thai people that YOU mention all the time )

And others that can service them as well, you are very very Good, but not the only man in this country who can re build a shock with Quality in mind, which is a very strong point to you, and thanks and congrats on you for that.

If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.

NO, the question was in reference to Andrew Stroud, but you are very busy I know!

Seato used a box stock TTX36 at the Manfield nationals on his R1 to win Superbike leg 1 and smashed a long standing lap record.

Exellent, and congradulations Ohlin's

You used a box stock 46PRXLS at Ruapuna in the rain several seasons ago and comprehensively annihilated everyone.

Maybe you have lost my shock settings notes after all these years mate, but I remember that we added 2x comp shims, and reduced the bleed jet as well as changed the Linkages to make the shock firmer in the first part of the stroke to stop it squatting like a school girl

There was also some different pistons that you had machined up in Hawera as a copy of others that you had, but I guess you may have lost those notes as well eh ( O copyrite pops up again)

Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

Optimise, or make work to the value all believe they are and should be?

Granted, Ray is a great guy and a great rider. Also WP have a number of good products and also some downright average ones on much of the oem KTM stuff. Backup is just as important though, as in the end event the product is a tool to be worked with.

Yes, but Andrew and Ray never needed to get any one to pull them apart to make them work here, ( after buying the product Ray included,) and again, there are others that are fully qualified to re build these units if service was needed.

You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

Mate, your work on the Ohlin;s is exellent, and if I ever wanted to get an Ohlin's modified to make it work properlly here, I would ask you first to do every time, You did fantastic work on my units, and then I always ended up doing all the externall settings myself to make it work how I wanted it to, as well as all your other customers that were using the same unit as me, always ended up with My internal set up choice of the shock, as you fealt that they deserved what WE had learned together ( NOT YOU ALONE, NOR YOUR SHOCK MACHINE) I would also not go around bad mouthing others trying to do set up work for there customer base, nor would I rubbish another brand

UNLESS THERE WAS A KNOWN GENUINE SAFETY ISSUE THAT ALL SHOULD KNOW ABOUT

Anyway, have a good day, and stop talking shit on here, and go earn yourself another million

[Robert Taylor]

Or be the Rep of an alternative brand in a very small market place, they work well enough for Robbie to win on, so what is there problem please??

Sorry Rob, but Ohlin's is good, but the NOT the only Good product out there, there are cheaper just as good alternatives availlable, and you and I both know it

( PS, You did not awnser my question about people building shocks to look like what they are not, ie, copyrite issues and court offenses like the Thai people that YOU mention all the time )

And others that can service them as well, you are very very Good, but not the only man in this country who can re build a shock with Quality in mind, which is a very strong point to you, and thanks and congrats on you for that.



NO, the question was in reference to Andrew Stroud, but you are very busy I know!



Exellent, and congradulations Ohlin's



Maybe you have lost my shock settings notes after all these years mate, but I remember that we added 2x comp shims, and reduced the bleed jet as well as changed the Linkages to make the shock firmer in the first part of the stroke to stop it squatting like a school girl

There was also some different pistons that you had machined up in Hawera as a copy of others that you had, but I guess you may have lost those notes as well eh ( O copyrite pops up again)

Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

Optimise, or make work to the value all believe they are and should be?




Yes, but Andrew and Ray never needed to get any one to pull them apart to make them work here, ( after buying the product Ray included,) and again, there are others that are fully qualified to re build these units if service was needed.

You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

Mate, your work on the Ohlin;s is exellent, and if I ever wanted to get an Ohlin's modified to make it work properlly here, I would ask you first to do every time, You did fantastic work on my units, and then I always ended up doing all the externall settings myself to make it work how I wanted it to, as well as all your other customers that were using the same unit as me, always ended up with My internal set up choice of the shock, as you fealt that they deserved what WE had learned together ( NOT YOU ALONE, NOR YOUR SHOCK MACHINE) I would also not go around bad mouthing others trying to do set up work for there customer base, nor would I rubbish another brand

UNLESS THERE WAS A KNOWN GENUINE SAFETY ISSUE THAT ALL SHOULD KNOW ABOUT

Anyway, have a good day, and stop talking shit on here, and go earn yourself another million

Oh my giddy Aunt, that is one hell of a post. But there are are a few inaccuracies or misinterpretations with your comments Shaun and I will add clarity as follows:

1)Yes, Ohlins, Penske and WP all make the best products , but they are very definitely several pegs better than anything else. Cheap equals cost cutting on material choices, tolerances, performance and repeatability shock to shock ( just ask the car guys about matching dampers! ). Local purchase , local full and proper backup. ( If you are lucky )

1a ) Robbie P is clearly pepared to hang it out more than the regular post classic jockies and I have no doubt that with better equipment and great set up support he would be faster. Its amazing what you learn when you attend overseas distributor conferences.

2) I have only mentioned the Thai shocks in this post. In terms of building a few specials with a mix of components from several suppliers then I plead guilty. Several people know the crazy things I have built. For example a KYB MX shock with Ohlins shaft internals, a Race Tech delta valve and a Showa bladder. Good enough to take 3rd overall in the MX nationals one year with an average level rider. I even took this shock to Sweden to run on their dyno. As for the Penske high speed valve I discussed its function with my viking friends, very transparently.
Not for volume production and certainly not a copyright infringement issue.
And then there have been ''cocktailed'' forks ''garaging'' components from several manufacturers etc.

3) As I reasonably recall you told me that the Ohlins shock you won the Isle of Man with several years back was box stock, therefore great for such a road course and your small, light frame. But that setup may not have been so flash for say a 6 foot 90kg rider.

4) That may be right about the linkages ( Yamaha FZR1000T pullrods, another cocktail again! ) but any internal mods were carried through after that wet race, it was as you recall the world debut of the 46PRXLS type and we wanted to first try with stock settings. But I may be half wrong.

5) Traxxion pistons, now in the bin as the Penske derived setting steps are too coarse and in any event we through long ( and ongoing ) accumulation of Ohlins experience now know comprehensively how to get the best out of them. I would have to say on balance that we have the Ohlins stuff working appreciably better, but of course have now taken a further leap forward with the TTX range. Nothing stands still in this game, ever.
Remember the Traxxion digressive fork pistons? A straight copy/ ripoff of Ohlins 98 model Superbike pistons with Race Tech size porting. Now also consigned to history.

6) It is one of the very biggest misconceptions that an Ohlins road bike shock for sportsbikes comes out of the box ready to road race. Not so, it is for riding on the road with. Here in NZ it arrives to the end customer preset for the application using the benefit of my experience that your feedback as a rider helped in no small way with over several seasons. But also other riders such as Rees, Shirriffs etc. Even a novices feedback and perspective can be valuable.

7) Andrew has had squat issues with the equipment he has used over the last few seasons and I know that has largely been masked with otherwise overfirm spring rates and just putting up with it. Other people who know have candidly mentioned this, a number of times. I am sure he could have had the equipment working a lot lot better but he was only intermittently challenged because of his riding brilliance. So he got away with it, up until last season.
As I have sold much much larger volumes of the product I distribute Ive had a whole plethora of different riders in shape, size and speed. So neccessarily I have had to be on my game and have learnt a hell of a lot through it. At the very start I was very much in the deep end.

8) You state your rider feedback help which I have acknowledged. You stated what you wanted as a rider and I translated that into tech mumbo jumbo to try and constantly improve your settings. But you have also benefited directly from other riders feedback. One example that I can recite is that we developed a new and very effective internal shock setting technique in Craig Shirriffs rear shock the year he won his first 600 title. That very same technique was applied into your title winning Honda the very next year. When Craig won his second 600 title he used an Ohlins shock designed for Indycars that I had first wanted you to test, etc.

9) We talked today about QUALITY CONTROL and through whys and wherefores stuff is done that shouldnt be. you know that I am VERY tetchy about untrained and poorly equipped people touching equipment that has the ability to maim or kill. ( Youve clearly got big crown jewels to bounce back given what you have gone through ). Also, onsellers having very limited product knowledge and experience, enough to literally cause danger.

I think it is an inarguable fact that there are too many people working on products that they know too little about and they do not have the appropriate tooling and experience to do so. ( Call me old fashioned )I will doubtless get bad mouthed by some for saying so, but there is a hell of a lot of shonky work being done out there. Yes there are a handful doing good work but they have also realised the need for appropriate equipment and networking off ( in my example ) the distributor technical database. There is only one Ohlins distributor, there is only one WP distributor etc.

10) Im not getting rich out of selling this product as the margins are by no means handsome. Perhaps I would have a smaller mortgage if I hadnt helped so many riders in mx and road race out of my own pocket over the last 2 decades or so ( including you ) Also many trips to Sweden for technical training and dialogue with their engineers, knowledge that in the past you have criticised me for being too open with. And I guess there is a ring of truth in that, but in turn I can identify a good number of sales because I have been less than secretive from my own accumulated knowledge and experience.
I guess also that many will think national champions past and present in this country are paid huge retainers by manufacturers and product sponsors. And receive huge sums in prize money. If that were so I would say give me and Shayne close to a million for Crown Kiwi Technical and we will happily find something else less stressful and all consuming to do...

Now lets get on with it and foster along a few of those emerging young riders!

[Pancakes]

All respect to other contributors to this thread for their skill in this field and the quality of their product but it does get a little tedious when the answer to any suspension question is answered with "buy Ohlins and get RT to tune them". In a world where we could all do just that if we wanted we might not need to cos I'd be riding an MV and a Buell on alternate days and would probably need a few years in the saddle of each to find the limits of their handling.

I think the first post was opening discussion on some new shocks to the market and if anyone in the industy or not has some first hand info that'd be great. Something like "dangerous because... ok for the price but not racing.. lack of adjustment if your little and the units are heavy but work well..." would all be constructive answers.

I have seen quite a few fast rally, drag and street cars built and having good quality parts to work with is an awesome starting point but have also been in cars that handled better than the competition with thousands of dollars spent in each corner that were parts bin specials built to the right specs buy someone who had done their own R&D. RWD Starlets with turbo rotaries running shorted sway-bars and springs from Cortina's re-heat treated by Snell's to the owners spec comes to mind.