drifting question

[James Deuce]

I hope I'm one of the sane ones who responded to your post - I've never been met with ridicule talking about sliding on the road,I just get ignored with a he's a wanker look.When getting young guys to ride on the dirt track they would come down with dirt bikes on dirt tyres and ride like they were on dirt...cause they were.But that's not the way to go fast on a flat track - I used to tell them I'm using my street skills out there,not my dirt skills....this is how I ride on the road - then I would go out on my old XS1 street bike and go around the out side of them on the corners.I first learnt to slide a bike on the seal,in the mid 70s I was using trials tyres and doing controled slides on the road...I had no idea it was not the done thing,I didn't realise until later that most people didn't ride like that.

The modern road racing style has been adapted from flattrack racing - heavy on the front on corner entry,then a controled powerslide out.Do you still have flattrack in ChCh? last time I heard they were the last ones doing it.If you can get out on a dirt track and learn to slide on hard pack clay,then you can transfer this to the seal - that's how Kenny Roberts taught the road racers in his school,do it you self.Get a bike with a more traditional set up...a classic look,this gives better weight distubution than a modern street bike or a dirt bike,put a fat front tyre on and ride till you can push the front,and I mean really push the front...use the front to turn the bike,use the front to push the rear out.I know I'm preaching to a hostile audiance,but if you want to do it you can....any wanker can do it.

You're missing the point, or maybe just going for the troll. You're talking about racing, and he's talking about stunting on public roads. Go racing or go to a carpark, but don't go crashing into lamposts or cars trying to be cool. In fact it would be appropriate to ride like that on gravel roads. Done it myself. But not on a public sealed highway. With modern tyres, if he does get it to slide, he's just as likely to find himself shot over the highside when the tyre grips on a grippier patch of tarmac.

But of course I'm not allowed to express a sensible course of action because that makes me a wanker, or deserved of getting something shoved up my arsehole, according to your little friend who attempts to ameliorate his rudness with pictures. I'll just accept that my ACC levy has to go up every couple of years to pay for the spinal injuries.

[scumdog]

Knobby tyre in the wet + a torquey motor = good "drifts" on tar seal, or as a mate of mine once did - put really thick grease in the tyre tread!!!

[merv]

.. but these days SD you'd have to enforce the "sustained loss of traction" law eh if anyone did anything so silly or you'd just have to turn a blind eye.

[Motu]

You're missing the point, or maybe just going for the troll. You're talking about racing, and he's talking about stunting on public roads.

Bit of both - I'm trying to stir it up,make people look out of the way they ride their bike,see that others may have done or do things a bit different.I'm talking about racing yes,but also that's how I rode on the road back then - coming out of a corner with the rear wheel 6in out and the front wheel 2in off the deck was not uncommon - I was an idiot and will stand up to any crititsism without trying to justify my actions - I came off some...but I have never been to hospital with motorcycle injuries and have never written a bike off,or involved other people in any misadventures...you may say it's luck,I say you make your own luck.

Stunting for him...maybe,but not for me,I rode alone and still do,everything I do on a bike is for my own enjoyment,not to show others what an idiot I am,um,that's kinda obvious.The only reason I rode on the dirt track was because I was tricked into doing it,then discovered I wasn't embarrassed as I thought riding in front of a crowd.

Point taken about the modern tyres,that's why I think people crash around here,they have no idea what happens to a tyre on the limit - that's why I ride on tyres you'd never be seen on,I can find their limit and know exactly where I am at all times....making my own luck....

[Two Smoker]

You will only do slides on your 250 with Cold tyres..... I have slid a road bike a few times (Andrew's Ducati 400SS) but that was because it was on the edge of the tyre and it was a sport touring tyre...... That sliding was not on purpose but was controlled (dont know how)

On the 400, have only slid it with cold tyres on the road.......

On the track, all my bikes have been in slides, but only because my peg or fairing was digging too much into the track........

Plain and simply your not going to be able to do it on your bike unless you get a super motard.....

I also completely agree with WT.....

[Slipstream]

.
Then you feel like a bit of a hero and tell your mates how fucken cool you are at the pub later on. Everyone of them nodding in aggreement.

Are you sure that they aren't just nodding to the unvoiced question of you just being a wanker :eyepoke:

(2 posts to go )

[White trash]

Are you sure that they aren't just nodding to the unvoiced question of you just being a wanker :eyepoke:

Nah. None of my mates are tuff enuff to think that and live to tell the tale.

[scumdog]

.. but these days SD you'd have to enforce the "sustained loss of traction" law eh if anyone did anything so silly or you'd just have to turn a blind eye.

Amazing the amount of "blind eye" I have had at times when wheels have been spinning!!!

[TwoSeven]

I hope I'm one of the sane ones who responded to your post - I've never been met with ridicule talking about sliding on the road,I just get ignored with a he's a wanker look.When getting young guys to ride on the dirt track they would come down with dirt bikes on dirt tyres and ride like they were on dirt...cause they were.But that's not the way to go fast on a flat track - I used to tell them I'm using my street skills out there,not my dirt skills....this is how I ride on the road - then I would go out on my old XS1 street bike and go around the out side of them on the corners.I first learnt to slide a bike on the seal,in the mid 70s I was using trials tyres and doing controled slides on the road...I had no idea it was not the done thing,I didn't realise until later that most people didn't ride like that.

The modern road racing style has been adapted from flattrack racing - heavy on the front on corner entry,then a controled powerslide out.Do you still have flattrack in ChCh? last time I heard they were the last ones doing it.If you can get out on a dirt track and learn to slide on hard pack clay,then you can transfer this to the seal - that's how Kenny Roberts taught the road racers in his school,do it you self.Get a bike with a more traditional set up...a classic look,this gives better weight distubution than a modern street bike or a dirt bike,put a fat front tyre on and ride till you can push the front,and I mean really push the front...use the front to turn the bike,use the front to push the rear out.I know I'm preaching to a hostile audiance,but if you want to do it you can....any wanker can do it.

I think there may be a track down here - but I havn't been to investigate - although it might be worth while taking a look to see how they do things.

I used to race around a grass track on a road bike, the basic trick for the corner was to lean the bike over and open the throttle, which made the back end come round - just a matter of pointing the front wheel in the appropriate direction and keeping on the gas. The only times I ever fell off is if I shut the throttle too quick or opened it too much before the rear had come back into line - then you'd either end up butt first or eating grass depending on how it all went.

On the 250 I have a corner I like thats out of the way from everything. With the dragons on it was a matter of setting the throttle and banging the bike on its side - at a certain point round the corner the tire would slip then grip if I got the lean angle right. You could make it go a bit further if you caught it with the throttle and gave it a bit more gas, but would lose it as the bike stood up on the exit - but most often its just a slip and grip. It just plain dont have enough go juice to do more than that.

I've had mixed results on the dunlops - some mornings it will go, some it wont - I can never figure out how those things work - although I dont have the confidence in them to try it in the wet as I did with the dragons.

Not much luck with the front end on the 250 and i've tried a few different ideas - really all I can do it get it to skip in a straight line if I really wail on the brakes - with the dunlops if I turn too quick it just wants to tuck on me which is off putting at best. On my old cibby600 you could just square the corner right off and turn hard and if you got it right the front would skip a bit as it washed off the speed. But for the life of me I cant remember exactly the sequence for doing it.

I'm absolutely hopeless on a dirt bike - the few times I've tried I get a horrible feeling of no balance (no upper body balance) and being up to high - which makes me too nervous to ride the things. I did once have some moderate success on an old bombardiar - but then that was our old clunker rat bike that barely did 20mph on a good day. Will give it another shot some day I guess.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Im not sure dude - but heres my 2c...

I Thought, and still often THINK im sliding the Viffer 400 during races coming out of the hairpin @ pukekohe and previously out of castrol... However im not sure and i doubt it more and more i talk to more experienced riders... I feel the bike shake/squigle and the suspension starts bouncing like up and down on the back end, but its always exiting the corner as i gas it full and i have always tilted the bike up more upright hten the max lean my balls allow me to do. Except once, when i gassed it way too early heading into the apex of castrol and the back end swung, it was slower then i would have imagined a lowside would of been but i was still far from capable of being able to control it.
my thought process was "sweet its starting to get lower, and the back is going further away" and i didnt want to smack off the gas as people say thats how u highside, yet at hte same time i thought it would just ride out... but it just kept on falling and getting closer to the ground as the rear end swung out to overtake me... was pretty graceful i thought and we just went for a slide down the backstraight... but it made me start to think how hard that slide shit really was and that chances are what i feel exiting some corners is just some sort of suspension malfunction.

Either way as hard as it is to believe you do this on your 250 on GPR70SP's (correct?) with enough lean angle to the point that your rolling off the tyre - so minimal tyre is touching, the physics and theory is there to say its possible on ANY machine... However i reckon if youve gotten this far come join the ranks of F3 even on that machine and show us n00bs how its done. I will honestly put half your entry fee up to come do it in the hope that i can follow and possibly learn something.

[Jackrat]

I hope I'm one of the sane ones who responded to your post - I've never been met with ridicule talking about sliding on the road,I just get ignored with a he's a wanker look.When getting young guys to ride on the dirt track they would come down with dirt bikes on dirt tyres and ride like they were on dirt...cause they were.But that's not the way to go fast on a flat track - I used to tell them I'm using my street skills out there,not my dirt skills....this is how I ride on the road - then I would go out on my old XS1 street bike and go around the out side of them on the corners.I first learnt to slide a bike on the seal,in the mid 70s I was using trials tyres and doing controled slides on the road...I had no idea it was not the done thing,I didn't realise until later that most people didn't ride like that.

The modern road racing style has been adapted from flattrack racing - heavy on the front on corner entry,then a controled powerslide out.Do you still have flattrack in ChCh? last time I heard they were the last ones doing it.If you can get out on a dirt track and learn to slide on hard pack clay,then you can transfer this to the seal - that's how Kenny Roberts taught the road racers in his school,do it you self.Get a bike with a more traditional set up...a classic look,this gives better weight distubution than a modern street bike or a dirt bike,put a fat front tyre on and ride till you can push the front,and I mean really push the front...use the front to turn the bike,use the front to push the rear out.I know I'm preaching to a hostile audiance,but if you want to do it you can....any wanker can do it.

I can understand where your coming from here.I resently put dirt track bars on the XS.Instant change of balance,much more control over things like slides,far better control in gravel.I'm pretty sure it's the design of most road bikes today that gets so many in the poo when they hit gravel or slide on the road.I'd far rather have a bike I can blast through gravel on,or slide on wet or dry roads.The alternatives are not much fun.Face plant in gravel or high side on the road,no thanks been there.
This is why supermotos are becoming popular with some people,I can certainly see the appeal.Bikes like the new KTMs and a few others can two wheel drift with ease on dry roads and still be fully under control.
Like you say,(sort of)power slides are a forgotten art,on the right bike they are NOT dangerous.that's the catch,the right bike,few are made today.
IMHO

[Motu]

Oh,it occours to me you guys are still thinking in your sports bike box,that's your main problem.It's all in the tyres...

1) - Competition trials tyre,4.00x18,this is a 2 ply tyre with a very soft tread compound - they are so soft you can turn the knobs 90deg with your fingers...I ran one of these on the rear of my dirt tracker.Have also used them on the street.

2) - Speedway rear tyre,3.75x19,same compound as the trials tyre,but the knobs are a bigger area but lower height,this means they don't squirm around as much.I ran one of these on the front of my dirt tracker.Also have run this as a street tyre.

These are dirt tyres and of course they will let go earlier than even your budget sports tyre...but the compound means they will still grip,really,really well...once the slide is going you can just play in the drift zone.Of course they are illeagal and no one would ever use them on the road,oh no,never.Another reason you need an older traditional style bike,to get the rim size.

Try it before you tell me you can't slide on the road.

Just read your post Jack,you put that in as I was 2 fingering - I agree completly.

[James Deuce]

Bit of both - I'm trying to stir it up,make people look out of the way they ride their bike,see that others may have done or do things a bit different.I'm talking about racing yes,but also that's how I rode on the road back then - coming out of a corner with the rear wheel 6in out and the front wheel 2in off the deck was not uncommon - I was an idiot and will stand up to any crititsism without trying to justify my actions - I came off some...but I have never been to hospital with motorcycle injuries and have never written a bike off,or involved other people in any misadventures...you may say it's luck,I say you make your own luck.

Stunting for him...maybe,but not for me,I rode alone and still do,everything I do on a bike is for my own enjoyment,not to show others what an idiot I am,um,that's kinda obvious.The only reason I rode on the dirt track was because I was tricked into doing it,then discovered I wasn't embarrassed as I thought riding in front of a crowd.

Point taken about the modern tyres,that's why I think people crash around here,they have no idea what happens to a tyre on the limit - that's why I ride on tyres you'd never be seen on,I can find their limit and know exactly where I am at all times....making my own luck....

Fairy Nuff then.

I have hurt myself, and quite badly once. I make no apologies for anything though. Hard won advice that is spurned by those who are 10ft tall and bullet proof, when they asked for it, is faintly insulting.

You and Jack are indeed talking about different bikes and styles to a sport bike which is what Tigger is riding. The chassis flex that used help with smoothly controlling a power slide is all but absent on a sporting 250, so they have a surfeit of traction over power. Good luck to him, but if he practices this stuff on the road he will be hurt. There's too little margin for error as it is, without provoking a potential loss of control deliberately. Falling off at 40km/hr in the dirt hurts a bit, but falling off on the road at 100km/hr with other traffic around is really going to hurt.

[Motu]

Well put,I'm with you completly on this too.

[Blakamin]

Watch "Faster"...



and keep it on the track