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Thread: NZ Track days could be better

  1. #1
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    Smile NZ Track days could be better

    I've done 3 track days in NZ having come from the UK in 2006 where I did 40-50 at various circuits and with lots of different Trackday organisers ( TDOs).

    I think there is a need to open up a few points on how track days are run here. Before I begin I want to say that my 3 days have been very enjoyable and I dont want to come across as some sort of whinging pomme... The points below dont stop me from riding, I just raise them because I think things could improve. I also recognise that there is a much smaller market here and there are cost implications (which I will cover below) ...

    Anyway...I love track days and I think I can add something or stimulate some positive debate... simple as that.


    • Track time. Track time is everything. Its what we do track days for. We all make a big commitment to get to a track in NZ. I found it a bit frustrating that there was less track time than was feasible. In the UK, tracks open for riding at 9am sharp and finish at 5pm ( there are also evening sessions) . That means all registration and track rules etc are dealt with before then . Track sessions are 20 minutes and 6 or 7 sessions are quite normal. I've only been to Taupo but it is such a waste that it opens at 10am (or slightly earlier). I once asked why there was such a late start and was told about track temprature.... Having ridden in November and March in the UK this didnt wash with me...

    • Safety/emergency cover. I think there should be 2 ambulance crews on duty at track days. If there is an injury and he has to be taken away to hospital then there is cover for the rest. No riding should occur without emergency cover...I was amazed at one day I attended when we were allowed to ride without ambulance cover. If a serious accident occurred it would have been unforgivable.

    • Track rules. In the UK Pillions are banned, stunt riding is banned (black flagged) and leathers must be worn. I'm not entirely convinced by the leathers rule but I am disturbed by seeing pillions and riders using a track day as an opportunity to lash around with pillions or stunt ride. Both circumstances are serious accidents waiting to happen which could be avoided. I don't think this is appropriate on a track where there are varying riding abilities around. Other sessions for stunts could be arranged....but a track days is not the time or place IMO.... Overall though I think general track behaviour is good here (if the boys on supermotards can be avoided - but that is a seperate issue ay )...

    • Instruction. One of the things I and many others (in the UK) have benefitted from is having instructors there on the day to act as rolling marshals and to give advise to riders. For me this greatly enhanced the benefit I got from the day and added to the overall impression that the day was fully managed. Usually these were competent racers who valued the (free) track time and enjoyed the responsibility of the marshal/instructor role. I've seen very little of this here in NZ but I am sure it is feasible. It does raise the total number of track day addicts.... which is a good thing yes ?

    • Costs - In the UK many of the TDO's have gone to the wall because of lunatic insurance costs making running a TDO difficult. Thankfully there is a more sensible view on that here. There is also the high cost of running tracks there and the fact that people have more disposable income.... but in any case...the track days industry is booming. Almost every day at every track in the spring-autumn is fully booked before the day occurs. In other words, demand is strong. It is stong because the track and the TDOs have realised there is a market there... They have encouraged riders to come to the tracks... as a result the industry has grown...

      I do think here could be quite strong too... especially for a firm that gives maximum track times, efficient management of the day and value-adds like instruction. There is scope for higher prices if the rider gets the benefits.

      Here are some typical costs for tracks in the Uk :


    • Donington (without noise restrictions) : $452
    • Oulton Park (2005 price) $416
    • Cadwell Park (2006) $312
    • Rockingham Raceway (2006) $312
    • Silverstone (rare) $520
    • Brands Hatch (Full Circuit) $626

      Add to that the cost of fuel now at $2.75 and accommodation (min $65 per night) and its an expensive hobby doing
      track days


      Think yourselves lucky kiwis...



    So when we pay $90 - $120 we have a bargain yes ?... but what do we get as a result ?.... and could it be better if we paid more or some things were changed...? From what I have seen the track day scene here could expand , could provide a better event and could be a profitable enterprise. There is a market for an improved product perhaps at a higher price.

    • More could be done for accommodation links (from track and TDO websites).... many folks are from out of town and could do with some info...
    • a better map on the Taupo motor sport park website and a few road signs around the place would be handy !!.... why spend millions on the circuit and not have a signs anywhere around the circuit ?
    • and why are all the garages at Taupo closed....???....what's that all about ??...At all UK tracks ALL the garages are open... (including the one Rossi uses at Donington.... I always use that one.... )... it costs nothing.... Having all the punters sweating in the sun....thats pretty mean..... not to mention detrimental to the riders who need shelter during a long hard day.... surely a deal can be done on this !!!



    Anyway.... as I say..... hopefully some debate will ensue....

    Cheers

    Mort

  2. #2
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    Some good ideas.


    Though banning stunting ? Some people go to the track to take this off the street, maybe having it in certain sessions instead of a banning ideology.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    I once asked why there was such a late start and was told about track temprature.... Having ridden in November and March in the UK this didnt wash with me...
    Fair call, track temperature is no different to road temperature. Some people need to either harden up, or take it easy
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    Safety/emergency cover. I think there should be 2 ambulance crews on duty at track days. If there is an injury and he has to be taken away to hospital then there is cover for the rest. No riding should occur without emergency cover...I was amazed at one day I attended when we were allowed to ride without ambulance cover. If a serious accident occurred it would have been unforgivable.
    Fair call
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    Track rules. In the UK Pillions are banned, stunt riding is banned (black flagged) and leathers must be worn. I'm not entirely convinced by the leathers rule but I am disturbed by seeing pillions and riders using a track day as an opportunity to lash around with pillions or stunt ride. Both circumstances are serious accidents waiting to happen which could be avoided. I don't think this is appropriate on a track where there are varying riding abilities around. Other sessions for stunts could be arranged....but a track days is not the time or place IMO.... Overall though I think general track behaviour is good here (if the boys on supermotards can be avoided - but that is a seperate issue ay )...
    Don't be silly, would you rather people rode like that on the road? Trackdays here are more about doing fun stuff in a legal environment
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    Instruction. One of the things I and many others (in the UK) have benefitted from is having instructors there on the day to act as rolling marshals and to give advise to riders. For me this greatly enhanced the benefit I got from the day and added to the overall impression that the day was fully managed. Usually these were competent racers who valued the (free) track time and enjoyed the responsibility of the marshal/instructor role. I've seen very little of this here in NZ but I am sure it is feasible. It does raise the total number of track day addicts.... which is a good thing yes ?
    A few guys wear vests, does that count? I'm with you in the thinking that instructors could be arranged. Who's going to pay for the fuel, tyres, brakes, chain, and time off work that the day would cost said instructors?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    More could be done for accommodation links (from track and TDO websites).... many folks are from out of town and could do with some info...
    Fair call
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    a better map on the Taupo motor sport park website and a few road signs around the place would be handy !!.... why spend millions on the circuit and not have a signs anywhere around the circuit ?
    Fair call. Talk to the track owners
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    and why are all the garages at Taupo closed....???....what's that all about ??...At all UK tracks ALL the garages are open... (including the one Rossi uses at Donington.... I always use that one.... )... it costs nothing.... Having all the punters sweating in the sun....thats pretty mean..... not to mention detrimental to the riders who need shelter during a long hard day.... surely a deal can be done on this !!!
    The garages are available for hire any day you like. Pop up to the Jennian homes building next to the entry and pay your $100 per bay
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  4. #4
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    I'm with ya on the track-time, ambo's, instructors...
    (followed Todd, from KiwiRider mag, 'round Manfield & found it a huge help)

    Pillions can only go out in the slow sessions, as far as I know - my mrs loved the opportunity to get out on the track..

    Most ppl I've seen wheelying do so on the left-ish side of the back straight (at Tpo); but I guess it could only be a matter of time before someone overtaking could smack into 'em..

    Costs; if they go (much) higher, I'll be doing fewer of 'em

    I wish I'd done trackdays while I was in the UK; still, the IoM made up for that

    Good points there Mort..
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  5. #5
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    That, sir, Is why the English are a bore.

    Seriously, I love the disorganised and thin on rules and regs a bullshit culture we have in motorcycling in NZ.
    While your points are valid and I do see good intentions behind them; I ride a bike and take it to the track to escape too much crap like that everywhere else.

    as someone once said: Harden the fuck up!

    Seriously tho, Its all good with me here and if I aint your style you may have missed the right country to move to by about a Tasman sea worth of water!
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  6. #6
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    Just re skimmed your post and:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    Before I begin I want to say that my 3 days have been very enjoyable and I dont want to come across as some sort of whinging pomme... The points below dont stop me from riding, I just raise them because I think things could improve. I also recognise that there is a much smaller market here and there are cost implications (which I will cover below) ...
    Isn't that a bit like saying I'm not gay but my boyfriend is?
    Or I'm not a racist but...

    Jeeze man! that sounds exactly like ya whinging to me!
    Heinz Varieties

  7. #7
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    I find the 5 sessions that you usually get are enough for a day. I dont have a problem with track time. I could get alot fitter and it would help but overall I think the formula works well.
    Price - At $100-130 a trackday it is prohibitive enough for me not to do every one. More than that and I wouldnt go to any. The $40-$60 club trackdays are only possible due to massive support from volenteers. There has been rider training at every trackday I have been to but not quite so formal. Often you will see a guy following a vest round or the other way around. If you are keen for rider training then talk to the organiser and I am sure they will hook you up with someone.
    Ambulances are expensive to have sitting round. Having 2 would raise the price (hence point about and I am sure I am not alone) There is always trained personal on hand if the ambulance does have to leave the track for any reason.
    gear - I every trackday I have been to have been very good at checking gear. At minimum you need full armoured gear, nothing wrong with that.
    Stunting - get a grip. As long as the stunts are not endangering anyone else on the track then I have no problem with guys wheeling the back striaght. Keep it out of the pits though.
    As said above. the garages are available for hire at an extra cost.
    Overall, most of the trackdays are run really well. If anything riders need to be paying more attention and not taking an extra lap after the checked flag and holding up the next group going out.

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  8. #8
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    If we paid those UK prices for track days here then I guess we could have the additional things you mention (a second ambo, pits, instructors etc) All great ideas but how much can be charged for a track day in NZ before interest reduces?

    I personally think we get great value for money track days. I have done several at Manfeild for $40, Suzuki days were $50. The Honda day recently was a bit more ($150), but that covered lunch and there were instructors there for the day.

    I have never finished a track day wishing I could get more time on the track, in fact a lot of times I have not done the last session because I am shattered.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by koba View Post
    Jeeze man! that sounds exactly like ya whinging to me!
    Blimey you people can't stand anyone thinking about what's happening, critiquing and suggesting improvements, can you?! As Robert Taylor says about suspension, "the best you know is the best you've ridden".

    Re: stunting, I guess the intent is not to 'take it to the street' but to take it to another venue. Tracks (days) are about cornering and high-speed. Stunting is about neither. You can stunt in a carpark or anywhere, really; you don't need a track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    So when we pay $90 - $120 we have a bargain yes ?
    I presume your numbers are converted from Sterling. You also need to convert NZ wages to sterling. I find it easier not to convert, and show the numbers, because the ratio of the currencies is about the same as the earnings. But I agree with the sentiment; they are cheap and there is room to up the fees to provide a better service.
    Cheers,
    Colin

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  10. #10
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    Some good suggestions there Mort, most would add to the absolutely reasonable pricing here but certainly would make the sessions safer.
    As for the predictable anti-pom dude, it's a typical response from those with small kiwi-sized brains...


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  11. #11
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    Read and understood. As with almost everything that sucks a bit about NZ it boils down to a lack of people, a lack of disposable income and from the perspective of a TDO a "squared law" lack of money to organise things. I find it enormously sucky to have to do a three (?) hour ride to get to Manfield which, at the end of the day, is only a half step ahead of putting some cones down in a carpark. It is, however, a shitload better than nothing.

    So, yeah, a copy of Suzuka somewhere in the Wairarapa would be awesome and would no doubt help sales of sportsbikes round the region as a result. But there just isn't enough people or disposable income to make it a vaguely tenable proposition. Also: I'd be very happy to pay more for a track day for a bigger and/or closer track but suspect I'm in the minority here.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendog View Post
    I have never finished a track day wishing I could get more time on the track, in fact a lot of times I have not done the last session because I am shattered.
    Yeah, likewise. With the ride up, the track time itself, the standing around and general pissing about and rider back home again I'm absolutely farked by the end of the day.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    [*] Track rules. In the UK Pillions are banned, stunt riding is banned (black flagged) and leathers must be worn. I'm not entirely convinced by the leathers rule but I am disturbed by seeing pillions and riders using a track day as an opportunity to lash around with pillions or stunt ride. Both circumstances are serious accidents waiting to happen which could be avoided. I don't think this is appropriate on a track where there are varying riding abilities around. Other sessions for stunts could be arranged....but a track days is not the time or place IMO.... Overall though I think general track behaviour is good here (if the boys on supermotards can be avoided - but that is a seperate issue ay )...
    No wheelies at a track day? I can't think of a better place to practice wheelies. I've seen plenty of folk bin it at a track, but never from pulling a wheelie.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by warewolf View Post

    I presume your numbers are converted from Sterling. You also need to convert NZ wages to sterling. I find it easier not to convert, and show the numbers, because the ratio of the currencies is about the same as the earnings. But I agree with the sentiment; they are cheap and there is room to up the fees to provide a better service.
    You also have to look at the respective cost of living.

    Talk to some ex pats just over from the UK, allot of things here are far more expensive, currency swapping done, for example second hand cars are way more expensive here than in the UK. Plus we get paid diddly squat over here.

  15. #15
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    Thumbs up Yeah right

    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post

    I dont want to come across as some sort of whinging pomme...

    It must be a Tui moment kinda day today
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