Ashhurst to Akitio 29 12 07

**STUPY** · 30th December 2007, 14:00

I can't really comment on peoples riding styles, As i push my bike fairly hard sometimes and just seem to know when to button off (other than missing turn off's, Sorry guys). From my side of the fence the crash has not detered me in any way from riding but just highlights that the road is sometime unreadable and the need to adjust your speed is needed. it was great to see all of you and will be on as many rides as i can get on to ride with any of you. you are all a great buch of people. thanks for the advise and the ride cowboy, thanks to the ladies for hornetboys patch up, and the men for dragging the bike up from the bank. thanks to sarge for the rescue and don't worry bout the statesman jokes, i run the central districts commodore club so your car rocks

all in all , one hell of a day and really enjoyable

See you all in the saddle soon, that means you too hornetboy

(can't wait)

**ynot slow** · 30th December 2007, 14:04

Cowboyz couldn't agree more,you as the organiser must have nightmares if anyone crashes let alone dies.As for the idea of wives/girlfriends riding on the back,I know the feeling,it is great to include them,but also means responcibility,by us and others.Shit it's taken a while for me to persuade mine to hop on the back,and the last thing she wants is to see anyone taken out,and not ride with me. The last thing is to be taken out by someone being reckless or downright stupid(not aimed at hornetboy)with wife on the back.Do not need thinking about with the thought of kids with no parents.There is no way I would try to keep up with say you or 86 yet anyway,the bikes older and my skill level isn't up to it and I know that,hence the old adadge ride to your ability.You guys offer the riders you take out ideas on riding from experience,and that can only be acknowledged with thanks from those you help,thus they come better riders.Too many guys have died lately,mostly some could be avoided,but that's beside the point.You stress that it is not a race,but you can't predict the riding of some.Sure you do go fast at times,and if only 1 or 2 on the ride,and that's the way it should be,not racing with in a group of say 10 or more bikes.
Also to all you fine people have a good new years eve,will be down in Palmy in the morning for an interview,then home for a few beers,make up for not having any xmas eve.

**Dak** · 30th December 2007, 15:06

Originally Posted by cowboyz

Yesterday there were a range of riders from the complete newbie who had virtually zero experience on group riding to very experienced fast riders and all but one made it comfotably and safely. I hope that we made the new riders feel welcome and they dont feel intimadated by the speed of the front runners.

Felt welcome alright, I've been riding for a fairly long time, and still classify myself as a pretty shit rider really, and this is, well would be, the first ride I've ever been on with other people, I normally ride by myself. I thought it was very well done, I mean you couldn't have a wider variety of bikes and riders, and they way it all went worked out very well I thought. Certainly hasn't put me off.

Cheers, Jeff.

**WellyRyder** · 30th December 2007, 15:06

Originally Posted by Hornet250Boy

yea contemplating on the ride home as to reasons why i might have crashed like that i came to 2 conclusions:

Rider error + i had maxed the preload /rebound on high the day before to test the difference and forgot to reset it back which explains why the bike did what it did when it hit that kind of dip. but like ya say ,you live and you learn from your mistakes .the bike can be fixed or replaced in time ,and im very luck y i didn't sustain any broken bones only a few deep gashes in me arms and leg,which will remind me to never fiddle with preload unless ya know what your doing,and remember where it was originally. but yes this has really shocked me a bit,i think one of the worst feelings was that id looked like a typical young fella trying to be fastest and riding to fast for himself etc but yea i was riding within my limits i tell ya! but this has not deterred me from two wheels ,just took them away me temporarily,so i will be thinking about what im going to do about my bike in the next couple of days,not to sure at the moment.

Gidday chris how ya going see ya had a bit of a mishap how r ya? (just had to join up and mention something) Mate dont worry, ive been their before mucking around with preload etc without a clue lol and had a few very close mishaps ,but as ya say ya learn from it .as for the peoples comments around here ,i think you guys should give him a break ,hes a top bloke and doesn't need some people giving him the harsh words ,i think he will have learnt his lesson,
ive ridden with HB a few times in the last couple of months and from what i could see he was an alright rider,as for the knee out on corners id advised him to do it as much as possible as it gives you a better feeling of stability imo, i mean yea he travels a little to close for comfort but never to intentionally freak me out nor others,
but hey its just my 2c

Have a good one HB hope to catch ya on the road again

**cowboyz** · 30th December 2007, 15:38

Originally Posted by WellyRyder

Gidday chris how ya going see ya had a bit of a mishap how r ya? (just had to join up and mention something)

welcome to kiwibiker.
Mate dont worry, ive been their before mucking around with preload etc without a clue lol and had a few very close mishaps ,but as ya say ya learn from it
the bike setup wasnt the cause of the accident. I examined the crash scene and can say that in my opionion the bike didnt tuck under or lift. Simply caught out with a switchback going too fast into the turn and running wide on the out.
.as for the peoples comments around here ,i think you guys should give him a break
repectfully disagree good sir, Some things are not ok and as ride organiser (and I did say from the pretext that dangerous riding was not welcome) I am disappointed with not only the crash but the comments I am getting from other riders on the ride who were concerned with HB riding and to quote "an accident waiting to happen" I never rode close enough to HB to witness his riding one way or the other. I just get the comments thrown at me cause I dont care if people like me or not. Just trying to make our rides safer.,

hes a top bloke
no argument there. Chris is a top bloke and very entertaining to have around at the stops. Its the bit in between the stops that has people concerned.
and doesn't need some people giving him the harsh words
just calling it as I see it. If you dont like it then dont pay attention and go buy some flowers for the funeral.,
i think he will have learnt his lesson,
I hope so. I also hope he pays attention to what others have been saying. BR is a extremely experienced road rider with more long distance touring rides under his belt than I have had swedish woman (I wish that wasnt true) and he had concerns. Meanie is a very senisble road rider and on the day was telling HB to back off and he didnt like the way he was riding and HB didnt look to me like he was taking it in.

ive ridden with HB a few times in the last couple of months and from what i could see he was an alright rider,as for the knee out on corners id advised him to do it as much as possible as it gives you a better feeling of stability imo,
the whole knee down thing. What can I say. I play round with styles. putting knee out, not putting knee out. transferring unpper body to striaght on cornering side of bike, dropping bike under the corner. Simply sticking your knee out doesnt make for a dangerous rider one off. Neither does it make you safe. It was a package comment that you have taken one small aspect to comment on.
i mean yea he travels a little to close for comfort but never to intentionally freak me out nor others,
unacceptable. Travelling too close is a perception thing and if either the rider behind or rider in front thinks that it is too close then it is too close. The objective for the ride was a cruisy "ride your own ride" with all levels of skill levels there. Meanie mentioned to me that he felt he could not brake as he wanted to to make the turnoffs cause HB was simply too close. That is why Meanie waved him through. Meanie is very easy going and if HB was following close enough to have both Meanie and Mrs Meanie concerned then it was too close. No excuses will wash here. Couldnt give a rats arse if you and HB want to go out riding and follow each other 1m off eachs shoulder. But, on this ride - and every other Ashhurst ride I organise - that is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
but hey its just my 2c
I dispense my advice for free and some still think its overpriced.
Have a good one HB hope to catch ya on the road again

comments inline but if I dont type something here it doesnt register 10 chars.

**oscarnz** · 30th December 2007, 15:43

Originally Posted by cowboyz

Yesterday there were a range of riders from the complete newbie who had virtually zero experience on group riding to very experienced fast riders and all but one made it comfotably and safely. I hope that we made the new riders feel welcome and they dont feel intimadated by the speed of the front runners.

I felt very welcome (as was very nervous about coming on the ride yesterday), and wasnt intimadated by the front runners at all. But being able to ride my own ride made the nerves disappear, and as I said before "Thanks for everyone patience", As Chanceyy said yesterday, we have all been where I am at, and the only way to learn is out there doing it. It is great to be able to ride with experienced riders, and learn from them.

**GSVR** · 30th December 2007, 16:49

I think when you get a new bike the first few weeks are the most likely your going to fall off.

If your young and haven't experienced intense pain and broken bones you don't worry about it as much.

Hornetboys not a dumb kid and I think he's already learnt enough without a public flogging.

Pity he never made the trackday then he may have reacted different or destroyed his bike in a safe enviroment.

Now Banditrider might remember me with arm in a sling after falling of on this exact same road coming home from the coast to coast about 3 years ago ( This was when he actually owned a bandit). I'd only had the bike a month and fitted new rubber for the ride. I was having a ball but then I came over a crest and for a split second lost my sense of direction stood the bike up and then couldn't turn quick enough to make the turn and ran off on the exit. Bike was ok but not rideable I broke my arm up near the shoulder. Haven't fallen off on the road since and don't intend to.

**NZsarge** · 30th December 2007, 17:18

Originally Posted by STUPY

don't worry bout the statesman jokes, i run the central districts commodore club so your car rocks

all in all , one hell of a day and really enjoyable

See you all in the saddle soon, that means you too hornetboy

(can't wait)

He he, nah i'm only playing silly buggers, not offended in the slightest mate

**cowboyz** · 30th December 2007, 17:52

Originally Posted by Garry H

I think when you get a new bike the first few weeks are the most likely your going to fall off.

If your young and haven't experienced intense pain and broken bones you don't worry about it as much.

Hornetboys not a dumb kid and I think he's already learnt enough without a public flogging.

Pity he never made the trackday then he may have reacted different or destroyed his bike in a safe enviroment.

Now Banditrider might remember me with arm in a sling after falling of on this exact same road coming home from the coast to coast about 3 years ago ( This was when he actually owned a bandit). I'd only had the bike a month and fitted new rubber for the ride. I was having a ball but then I came over a crest and for a split second lost my sense of direction stood the bike up and then couldn't turn quick enough to make the turn and ran off on the exit. Bike was ok but not rideable I broke my arm up near the shoulder. Haven't fallen off on the road since and don't intend to.

No public flogging here. But neither am I going to say "oh thats ok" I am not complaining about the accident itself. Ok shit happens. What I am trying to get clear - and this is aside from if I like anyone or not or anyone likes me or not - is the reports about HB pre crash riding is pretty shocking. Maybe it was a bit of enthusiasam or maybe he left his brain behind or maybe he rides like that all the time and thinks thats ok. What I am saying - in a public forum - is that riding is unacceptable on the ashhurst rides. Fullstop. I say this in a public forum to save time.
If you condone close riding and obviously riding outside your comfort level, overshooting and undercutting blind corners on the wrong side of the road then organise a ride with like-minded people and go for your life. Anyone reading this who is contemplating going on a ashhurst ride then let this be a formal public annocement that riding like a tosser is not welcome. I did put it in the orginal thread that idiots dont need to come. If that means that we get less bikes on the rides then that is fine - as long as it is safe.
Garry, you have had a dig at my riding on occasion and I have taken some of what you said to heart and thrown some of it away. I respect what you can do so effortlessly on a bike and add that to a comprehensive history of bike riding to create my own style. But always safely and I am damn sure I not putting anyone else in danger.

**NZsarge** · 30th December 2007, 18:19

First of all, it's blardy hot!
I've been agonizing over wether I should pipe up and say something on what I observed at the scene of Hornet Boy's incident and comments he made to me on the trip back to Wanganui but really I think it's well covered by people far more qualified (for perhaps lack of a better word) than I, Cowboyz, Meanie, Chanceyy, Banditrider and others.
I personally don't think any of their comments were in the slightest bit out of line of overstated and the fact that so many people are coming to this conclusion if you will, speaks volumes and the said amount of people feeling they need to comment on this hopefully Hornet Boy brings you some realization.

I think on the trip back to your place we got on quite well, I think you're a good sort and please don't take any of these posts as anything but genuine concern and desire to see you keep all your limbs and skin etc...

Ah bugger it, when you get back on your bike for gods sake take it easy.
We all make mistakes but it is important to try to learn from them and be honest with yourself and really think through what you you did wrong to lead to this accident.
I tryed the subtle approach on the way home in the car but....

I hope my butting in is'nt seen as jumping on the band wagon but if it is then whatever, so be it.

On the subject of making mistakes or over doing things on rides I cincerely hope people tell me if they are uncomfortable with the way I conduct myself. I KNOW I have made mistakes (some of them pretty stupid) on rides before and I hope I have realized and made oppologies to the people concerned. If not come up and tell me if nothing else but to make me think about what i'm doing.

**banditrider** · 30th December 2007, 18:21

Ok, while it seems that we're coming down a bit hard on Hornetboy it's for a pretty good reason: I for one do not want to be present at a serious accident (or even one like yesterday).

I was on the Coast to Coast the year of the double fatality (so you know what roads I'm talking about) and while I arrived late on the scene I still got to see a couple of riders stretched out on the ground with blankets spread over them. Like I said I did not see the gory details but I can still picture what I did see in my mind as clear as the day it happened. This terrible accident really got to me and I skipped the Coast to Coast for a number of years and am always aware of the idiots that do come out for that ride.

Now, Hornetboy is not a total moron and I really hope that he takes on board some of the points we've tried to make - we want to see him on more rides but do not want to be picking him or anyone else up out of a ditch or fence or worse.

Like I said earlier this has been an expensive lesson so I hope all riders who have been viewing this thread can learn from it - if it prevents even one injury then any embarrasment or offence that Chris may be feeling has been worth it.

I for one have not intended to offend Chris and really hope he can get his ride sorted, injuries healed, have a wee think about his riding and then come out and enjoy another ride with us.

**Meanie** · 30th December 2007, 18:31

Originally Posted by NZsarge

First of all, it's blardy hot!
I've been agonizing over wether I should pipe up and say something on what I observed at the scene of Hornet Boy's incident and comments he made to me on the trip back to Wanganui but really I think it's well covered by people far more qualified (for perhaps lack of a better word) than I, Cowboyz, Meanie, Chanceyy, Banditrider and others.
I personally don't think any of their comments were in the slightest bit out of line of overstated and the fact that so many people are coming to this conclusion if you will, speaks volumes and the said amount of people feeling they need to comment on this hopefully Hornet Boy brings you some realization.

I think on the trip back to your place we got on quite well, I think you're a good sort and please don't take any of these posts as anything but genuine concern and desire to see you keep all your limbs and skin etc...

Ah bugger it, when you get back on your bike for gods sake take it easy.
We all make mistakes but it is important to try to learn from them and be honest with yourself and really think through what you you did wrong to lead to this accident.
I tryed the subtle approach on the way home in the car but....

I hope my butting in is'nt seen as jumping on the band wagon but if it is then whatever, so be it.

On the subject of making mistakes or over doing things on rides I cincerely hope people tell me if they are uncomfortable with the way I conduct myself. I KNOW I have made mistakes (some of them pretty stupid) on rides before and I hope I have realized and made oppologies to the people concerned. If not come up and tell me if nothing else but to make me think about what i'm doing.

What he said

Were not publicly flogging anyone, we are just genuinly concerned for all of our friends we ride with. If i rode bad i would expect nothing less than a wind up from my mates
We also never want to see someone being shoveled off the road and have to explain to his or her loved one why and how it happened
Just climb back on HB but be a little more careful, I personaly have no problems riding with you again

**banditrider** · 30th December 2007, 18:33

On a more positive note: it was great to see everyone jump to help out. Particularly the girls who patched HB up and of course Sarge for doing his epic rescue mission!

How's that buddy system thingee work?

**cowboyz** · 30th December 2007, 18:40

yes. Moving on to the positive note Everyones first concern was the rider - as it should be. We are human afterall. The girls did a fantastic job sorting him out and making sure he was ok. I was a little concerned with the (non surprising) shock that was settling in as he was shaking a fair bit on the side of the road. I dont like seeing hurt riders lying down as things can do backwards very quickly without notice. Big ups to CHanceyy for being prepared with the first aid kit and of course, NzSarge for his willingness to drop everything and come to the rescue. Just have to work on the shinny armour huh?
Still enjoyed the days riding. and was good getting to meet a heap of new riders I hadnt met before.