Mental Health

[James Deuce]

Some mental illness is caused by brain function imbalances. This can arise from injury, tumors, or neuroreceptor production etc.

You all still seem think that being a little bit sad is a mental illness. It's not. All mental illness is caused by brain chemistry changes that most likely come about through a change in physical state, that can be externally influence, internally generated or both in differing measure.

Reactive depression can turn into full blown depression, permanently changing the brain's biochemistry. In a few cases. How "real" depression comes about is poorly understood.

There seems to be a fundamental inability to even begin to be able to process mental illness the same way people will accept an amputee. Without visual signals, there's nothing wrong, so you should HTFU. I haven't seen a post yet that begins to understand or even show a polite level of acceptance that people can be unwell and you can't see it OR do anything about it. A nice cup of tea doesn't cut it.

The HTFU comments don't help, it just shows that you are an unfeeling dolt, with a psyche about as deep as a puddle. If you don't understand something aren't you supposed to ask and learn about it? Or would you rather keep up the pretense of being far too tough to let stuff like that bother you, because being mental is the mental person's own fault and they should just fix it and stop making me feel uncomfortable? Like those rape victims and the women in the refuges. Serves them right.

It's a shame my infracted comment got deep sixed, because I truly meant it.

[marty]

All over the place like a MAD woman's shit?

In a past life I dealt with mentally disordered people every day. Most MDO's are never seen by the police.., They make a choice to live their lives NORMALLY, like the rest of the population.

Disco is drawing a very long bow to insiuate that Squidmark's behaviour is a result of his 'mental disorder'. That is the biggest cop out and attempt to not take responsibility that I have heard in a long time!

It's quite simple. Mark decides he's going to do something, and he does it. Fuck the consequences. He knew he was disqualified, knew the consequences, but still chose to drive. That has NOTHING to do with his mental health status.

AFAIC mark is just a socially inept try-hard that has ignored every piece of good advice that has ever come his way, and gone on to be self destructive every time.

[Winston001]

You all still seem think that being a little bit sad is a mental illness. It's not........

Jim2 - I can't remember if you posted in the Depression thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ght=depression but if you look there you'll see that the posters are insightful and aware.

I guess I'm reading this thread differently because it seems to me quite a few know very well that metal illness requires compassion.

[HTFU]

Hey Jim2 isn't DiscoDan meant to be giving us all the advice about mental illness.

First you say

"The saddest misconception about Mental Illness is that the person involved has a choice or it can be put down to past events.

The brain is a complex series of electro-chemical mechanisms. An imbalance in hormones, or brain chemistry creates mental illness.

Very few people develop a reactive depression in response to events in their life "

But then you say

"All mental illness is caused by brain chemistry changes that most likely come about through a change in physical state, that can be externally influence, internally generated or both in differing measure

Reactive depression can turn into full blown depression, permanently changing the brain's biochemistry. In a few cases. How "real" depression comes about is poorly understood"

So what is it ? .

I go back to my first post, combination of environment/ and genetic hardwiring creates unique and very individual mental issues. If it was more simple than that we would have everyone happy as a sandboy, and we soooo obviously don't .

[Winston001]

There is definitely a stigma about mental illness, both here and in society at large. But I don't think its ever likely to change.

I actually think its part of our genetic makeup to be a bit fearful/cautious/dismissive or whatever of people with a mental illness or brain damage. Case in point- as part of my job I spend do a lot of work with people with various injuries. I like to think I'm reasonably broad minded, however, when I have had to visit the homes of adults with brain injuries I always feel a bit nervous. The logical part of my brain is going "yep its all sweet, this guy is harmless- actually this is bloody interesting", but the 'shrew brain' (as Jeremy clarkson calls it) is screaming "Get the fuck outa here!!!" The trainee I do my site visits with gets VERY nervous, to the point where he's saying "maaaaan I just wanna get outa here"

This is the best post IMHO. I think TonyB puts his finger on why we struggle as a society to accept mental illness.

A person whose brain doesn't work quite like the rest of us dwells in a foreign land. We cannot anticipate their thoughts and reactions, which makes us uneasy.

This is a difficult reaction to get past. We can do it with people we know but in the wider community.......?

[HTFU]

Jim2 - I can't remember if you posted in the Depression thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ght=depression but if you look there you'll see that the posters are insightful and aware.

I guess I'm reading this thread differently because it seems to me quite a few know very well that metal illness requires compassion.

I agree with that, and I think what people on a public forum have to remember is most of the shit that gets spun on here more often than not just some quickly thought and typed out crap, a bit of jib and just passing some time. As for those seeking compassion on a public internet forum . Here's what I prescribe since Disco Dan has done a runner on us.

Get a big dose of life and some real live human support, this of course goes with a good dose of laughter and HTFU.

Ride a pushbike at 100km/hr down a hill, better still do it naked. Go surfing, nothing better than middle of summer 9pm sitting in the surf. Go tramping or caving with friends, Crystal Cave in Gardners Gut unbelievable beauty. Fall in love, raise some kids and enjoy doing it, take walks, read books about fun stuff, intrigue, fantasy and mystery . Do stuff that raises the heart rate, sex, exercise, the occasional street brawl.

If this doesn't work for you and you still mental, then do this. Have an attempt at the world record for longest freefall survived without a parachute. If you get that record, then go for most most freefalls survived in a day without a parachute. You will either die, which if you are mental is probably not a bad thing or become wickedy famous and rich from all the endorsements as world record holder and more than likely forget you are mental.

All the sex and money in the world, now thats what makes people happy, isn't it ?

[inlinefour]

What a crock! If the preformance here is anything to go by, there is not much chance of understanding is there? Some good comments here and plenty of not so. I've worked as a nurse in the local mental health system and I have read a fair bit. I do know that its not an exact science and there is plenty that is not understood. As for the comments regarding HTFU, thats just indicative of someone who knows feck all, but wants to share their opinion.

[marty]

I don't agree with HTFU, more with accepting who you are, and living your life within and at the edge of those boundaries. There is a difference between pushing those boundaries though, and just doing things without thought or consequence.

[marty]

Perhaps this is a deeper subject than we should be exploring on Kiwibiker.

Oh come on - we discuss all sorts of serious stuff here. Like lane splitting. And Beer. And titties...

[Ocean1]

First you say

"The saddest misconception about Mental Illness is that the person involved has a choice or it can be put down to past events.

The brain is a complex series of electro-chemical mechanisms. An imbalance in hormones, or brain chemistry creates mental illness.

Very few people develop a reactive depression in response to events in their life "

But then you say

"All mental illness is caused by brain chemistry changes that most likely come about through a change in physical state, that can be externally influence, internally generated or both in differing measure

Reactive depression can turn into full blown depression, permanently changing the brain's biochemistry. In a few cases. How "real" depression comes about is poorly understood"

So what is it ? .

The statements are not inconsistent.

And don't preclude:

combination of environment/ and genetic hardwiring creates unique and very individual mental issues.

If mental illness is defined as a malfunction of the mind then it's not hard to see that such a complex bit of kit might have a huge number of potential performance shortfalls. Malfunctions in cognitive and processing routines might be caused by internal failure, environmental stress or simple physical damage. It's not at all impossible that there be several causes, (in fact it's not uncommon at all), and multiple malfunctions in a single individual.

If I understand Jim's major objection as a comment on the phenomena of attention seaking, weak, lazy or self-serving but otherwise mentally functional people using the condition as a crutch, or an excuse, then I agree with him. Such people damage social and professional perceptions of genuinely mentally damaged people.

The problem is, (or one of them) that until you define "normal" for any given individual you can't define "damaged". And we are so diverse with regards to our various perceptual, intelectual and emotive capacities that it's literally impossible in some cases to make that distinction.

Sometimes we can however, there are a large number of reasonably accurately defined malfunctions which produce known and quantifiable symptoms. From such symptoms a reasonably relaible diagnosis can usually be made, and treatment, (sometimes even effective treatment) can be undertaken.

As for healthy people's ability to interact with mentally damaged people? Well, most people don't get much practice, I note that people with mentally ill relatives, neighbours or evern regular contacts seem usually to behave in a supportive way. Also, I think there's an element of evolutionary hard wiring in all of us that rejects "different" people. Even those with only slightly different behaviour, taught in a different culture arouses this reaction. Some either don't bother to analyse this reaction in themselves or can't supress the resulting reaction.

One thing I know: an intimate experience involving genuine loss of function usually changes people's perceptions of the issue, and how they feel about those less well off than themselves.

[HTFU]

The statements are not inconsistent.

And don't preclude:

From what I read.....

First he states that its a misconception that past events can change our mental state but then says "All mental illness is caused by brain chemistry changes that most likely come about through a change in physical state, that can be externally influence, internally generated or both in differing measure"

Externally influenced means to me - our past events and interactions with others and our environment. That would be like saying someones 3 year long mental state of depression was not at all influenced by the tragic death of their 5 year old child.

Think you need to go back over the posts to see what each person has posted to get an idea what they are really saying.

One thing I know: an intimate experience involving genuine loss of function usually changes people's perceptions of the issue, and how they feel about those less well off than themselves.

I agree with your post once you make your own opinion, I have stated similar things in mine. However, this last bit about intimate experience, again I will say " Public internet forum". Wouldn't be anyone on here that hasn't had an intimate experience or knows someone that has. Myself included. Not going to splash my own shit all on here but the reason I state what I do is more a dig at those that do need to get a life and HTFU.

I have got enough people in my life that I put a lot of effort into their wellbeing who really do need it. Depression, alcholhism just the tip of the real world iceberg most KBers deal with everyday. Compassion ? nah just a piss take on here sorry, will never be anything but. However, you come knocking at my door in a sorry state of repair, I got compassion in truck loads.

[James Deuce]

From what I read.....

First he states that its a misconception that past events can change our mental state but then says "All mental illness is caused by brain chemistry changes that most likely come about through a change in physical state, that can be externally influence, internally generated or both in differing measure"

Externally influenced means to me - our past events and interactions with others and our environment. That would be like saying someones 3 year long mental state of depression was not at all influenced by the tragic death of their 5 year old child.

Think you need to go back over the posts to see what each person has posted to get an idea what they are really saying.



I agree with your post once you make your own opinion, I have stated similar things in mine. However, this last bit about intimate experience, again I will say " Public internet forum". Wouldn't be anyone on here that hasn't had an intimate experience or knows someone that has. Myself included. Not going to splash my own shit all on here but the reason I state what I do is more a dig at those that do need to get a life and HTFU.

I have got enough people in my life that I put a lot of effort into their wellbeing who really do need it. Depression, alcholhism just the tip of the real world iceberg most KBers deal with everyday. Compassion ? nah just a piss take on here sorry, will never be anything but. However, you come knocking at my door in a sorry state of repair, I got compassion in truck loads.

You have very little understanding of the issues and you make it very obvious.

You also lack compassion or you wouldn't be taking the piss, would you?

I don't know why you've chosen my posts to over-analyse, but I'll give it a go. Reactive depression is generated by a life changing event. A very small percentage of people end up permanently damaged by things like relationship break ups, loss of a limb or paralysis, and the death of close family members or friends.

An external issue that generates depression or other forms of mental illness such as psychosis, could be a toxin, a virus, a brain injury such as a concussion, and in some cases electrocution.

The vast majority of depression sufferers come pre-equipped with a brain that predisposes them to depressive episodes. It may take something like 2 days without sleep to trigger an episode, or a substantial change to routine or job expectations, or an unexpected confrontation.

It is a misconception that all mental illness can be blamed on events that happen to people.

Do you feel like a big man now that you've actively taken the piss out of someone with a mental illness? Because in my experience most people do feel justified in accusing people like me of being useless malingering shitheads who deserve everything they get. My issues are due to a bike accident caused by a drunk driver, and apart from 6 months off work getting over a broken back and neck I've never let it stop me do anything. Prior to the accident I used to be a bit high strung. Now I have a condition called General Anxiety Disorder, due to having my brain smushed and developing post concussion syndrome which caused 3 day migraines and minor seizure activity. The GAD came about because of damage to my brain in that accident, and I am one of a very small percentage of people who can say, "That incident pushed me over the edge). Most people live with a dysfunctional brain until something happens that alerts other people to the problem

This now rates as my second biggest mistake in the past 3 weeks. I've outed myself as mental on a bike forum. I did the same thing at work in an attempt to lower my stress levels and just got told to go find another job because they aren't interested in carrying me.

[doc]

What happened to Disco Dan is he slightly unwell ?

[Usarka]

Awesome post J2.

[sunhuntin]

How ever, it also seems that people are starting to use mental illness as an excuse.

For example, so many parents I know all believe that thier kids need to be on ritalin (sp) because they're out of control. Thing is that 99% of the kids are perfectly normal kids, the problem coming from the parents that don't take care of thier kids and wont disapline in an effective manner. To me that quite often seems a coput on the parents part.

Then there are people that love the attention gained from using mental illness as an excuse for the lousy and stupid decisions they make.

yep... these days it seems that every second kid has add/adhd/whatever its called now. was 12 before i learned about that, and i honestly think the kid was just plain bad.