Cemetary circuit 2007: Farce

[anarchy]

I was pretty dirty on the Bernard Team, Stroud etc but it's occurred to me they could very well be innocent parties in all of this.
They may have been told something that was not communicated to the bulk of the field. That being the case should they now be punished and have their reputation rubbished for an organisers cock-up in not communicating vital information to the rest of the competitors?
They could have been just as suprised as WT was when they rocked up to the grid that someone was already camped in their position.
Has anyone spoken to Brian Bernard about what transpired from their perspective?

Here's a question for you

If you were the manager of a high profile team and you like everyone else at the riders breifing heard them say that the practice was only a practice to allow people to get used to the track and that anyone who didn't go out and qualify would be starting from the back of the grid. Would you let your guys sit in the pits to risk starting from the rear??. Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT. If they didn't and it was completely up to the officials on the day then I'm sorry for the comment but it doesn't look good

[skelstar]

...without so much as a rearward glance at their fellow competitors whose spots they had taken, indicates they weren't too fussed about the iregularitys.

Maybe they were just embarrased? Think that until conversations are had with the (superstar) riders involved, it would be better that they have the benefit of the doubt for now...

[Kickaha]

Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT.

If they didn't they either weren't at riders briefing or didn't bother listening to it as the question was asked and it was answered loud and clear

[roadracingoldfart]

Ok here is my 2 cents worth which may or may not assist in keeping a playing field even.......
If a rule is discussed at the riders briefing then that is the rule for the day unless a new revised briefing takes place.
If the entry form says anything about grid positions being based on qualifying times then tuff shit Mr, thats the rule , again unless notified at rides briefing.
Subsequent regulations can only be instigated with due notice again at the riders brief, not by bush pit lane telegraph.
My understanding is that a riders rep must be nominated or announced at the briefing ( but im happy to be proved wrong)
If the grid positions were posted in any form in the competitors area for thier interest then those are the grid positions and can not be altered to suit overseas or fancy teams.

I find it destructive for racing to see a thread like this on a public forum but i have to accept its the best , most effective way to attain a consensus over an issue that in my opinion should never have happened and should never be considered by a crew running an event thats more than likely the premier race for the year and certainly a must do for competitors and spectators alike.
I have been going to Wanganui evey year since 1981 and raced it twice and entered it 3 times (long story). Its a shame to see 3 classes for motards ( S1, S2 & Bears) but its fine if its supported by entries. However does it have to be run at the detriment of other classes where cross entering is not allowed and the motards can ?? Hmmm maybe.
After all that Jimmy i will sign any letter you format and have already rung Paul at MNZ to tell him of my issues with this event yupp he wasnt available. It is after all a sanctioned event with the permit being issued by MNZ so they are the ones whos rules were broken.
The Wanganui club ran it but in my opinion did not do so in the spirit of the rules or the letter of the permit submitted.
Its a shame init.
Ohhh and PS; i dont care if i get up anybodies nose with this diatribe.
Paul.
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.


.

[Grub]

As far as I know, he was the event director, the man running the show. And yes untill very very recently he was selling Ssangyong vehicles.

A guy called Jim Tuckerman was the Clerk of Course and he is a real arsehole. As Flag Marshalls we were on the start-finish at 7am sharp when this prat turned up and started dressing us down like naughty school kids!

WTF??? Here we were ready to spend all day standing in the fucking rain without a break or the opportunity to move from our post for 10 painful hours and this fuckwit starts on with this crap. He was even addressed as God!

From what we could see he then spent the whole day playing the big-noter. As Clerk of Course he is supposed to be on top of everything at the meeting. He's supposed to be available and informative to his leutenants all around the track, in the timing caravan and in the pits. Instead what did he do? He drove around all day in the pretty 4WD Safety Car with a cell phone glued to his ear. Firstly he shouldn't have been driving the thing, he should have been on top of his job. The Army has worked that one out decades ago - officers are not allowed to drive, they are driven so that their minds are free to strategise so they can anticipate and be on top of things.

I have known of Jim Tuckerman for some time and it is no surprise that he would not listen to anyone else and was a real arsehole about the whole thing - it fits. He's the guy to target, I've done my bit by writing to Lloyd McKenzie at the Club.

[slowpoke]

As for someone camping in their grid spots, they didn't have any. That's the bitch.

Someone somewhere had a piece of paper showing a grid formation with their names slotted in, how else did they know where to grid up? They may have just been doing exactly as they were told unaware that you hadn't been told the "new and improved" starting qualifications.

Here's a question for you

If you were the manager of a high profile team and you like everyone else at the riders breifing heard them say that the practice was only a practice to allow people to get used to the track and that anyone who didn't go out and qualify would be starting from the back of the grid. Would you let your guys sit in the pits to risk starting from the rear??. Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT. If they didn't and it was completely up to the officials on the day then I'm sorry for the comment but it doesn't look good

Exactly, which leads to the assumption that they had been told something that others had not. They may have erred on the side of caution with not running qualifying during wet conditions and a revised format may have only been communicated to a few teams, hoping (incorrectly) that the grapevine would do the rest.

If they didn't they either weren't at riders briefing or didn't bother listening to it as the question was asked and it was answered loud and clear

That's not to say that some official hasn't got in touch with their feminine side and changed their mind between the riders briefing and gridding up.

Think that until conversations are had with the (superstar) riders involved, it would be better that they have the benefit of the doubt for now...

Skelly's onto it. Someone from the promoted side of the fence needs to give their version of events before they are hung out to dry. They may have been mongrels and accepted the scraps they were given....or they may have acted in good faith unaware of the reason for the poor organisation/confusion. If it's the former then have at it, pistols at dawn and all that stuff....but if it's the latter then the damage can't be undone to someone's reputation. Wait until the full story comes out before we start rubbishing these guys.

[Kickaha]

Ok, I just remembered a incident from last year as well, a South Island sidecar team traveled up to compete in the event, they did their practice and qualifying and rode up to the grid for race 1

At the dummy grid they were told, they were to slow and couldn't race, nothing had been mentioned at riders briefing or on any documentation about having a qualifying cut off

Yes they were slow, but not as slow as some classics that had been allowed out in the class in previous years, they had also competed at national rounds and had two seasons experience and the other competitors were also happy for them to be allowed out with them, in fact all the rest of the field that I spoke to were spewing that they'd been allowed to travel up do practice and qualifying and then not be allowed out

A few letters were written to the club regarding this, not one that I know of was replied to

[Kickaha]

A guy called Jim Tuckerman was the Clerk of Course and he is a real arsehole. As Flag Marshalls we were on the start-finish at 7am sharp when this prat turned up and started dressing us down like naughty school kids!

WTF??? Here we were ready to spend all day standing in the fucking rain without a break or the opportunity to move from our post for 10 painful hours and this fuckwit starts on with this crap. He was even addressed as God!
.

Best way to deal with shit like that is to tell them to get fucked and walk off

[Drew]

Bro, the whole thiong reeks of shit to me, hound anyone who will listen about it!!!

On a brighter note, I SCHOOLED Stroud in damp track riding in the third race earlier today, just for you mate

[codgyoleracer]

It's not so much that we'd outdo the "pros", those guys were faster on a dry track, no doubt about it. Craig for example (and he qualifyed just like the rest of us) could win off the back on a BMX I reckon. He's just so quick there. I just feel that you should start from where you qualify, and have to fight your way through, just like everyone else.

It's like, had I not ridden the session, then gone to the organiser and said "Hey, I don't like the rain so I didn't ride but I'm actually semi quick. Can I start from the second row please?" Get laughed outta the place.

Thats would be pretty much it Jimmy,

All - "in the interest of safety", - but why this would be when the top three rows were all national class experienced riders is beyond me. - (we all know a bit about safety aye).

It is/was a joke & showed no respect to the riders that made the effort & followed the rules that were set in place. What was doubly dumbfounding was Pete Tanner specifically raised this issue at riders briefing re the matter if it was " wet for qualifying" (as he didint have the right tyres) , the answer he got from Jim in front of all the riders was " if you dont go out in qualifying you will start at the back" . (It was said firmly , loudly & sarcastically).

It was also intersting to see that the guys that did get moved up in the ranks wouldnt comment & couldnt care less. Thats worth remembering. (although ime not sure that I wouldnt be tempted by the same offer).

Personally getting shoved back from the front row to 11th spot in F1 was pretty annoying.)

Footnote:
(Or as the wife said to the officials in a nice loud voice " Cheating is cheating - it doesnt matter who pays for it" )

Glen Williams

[HDTboy]

But Glen, haven't you been told you're not allowed to win F1 on an SV650 at the street races?

[White trash]

Thanks for your comments Glen. From a racer with as much experiance as yourself, it's good to know how you see the situation.

Cheating is cheating. Plain and simple.

I also know for a fact that someone who benefitted greatly from this illegal rule change feels zero remorse and in fact thinks they deserved the rules to be changed.

[Sanx]

Glen, Jimmy - it says a lot about your fellow competitors that they were just happy to take advantage and couldn't care less about sportsmanship, fair play or doing what's right.
In particular, there's one rider who has earned respect through years of competition. If he had raised a stink about the situation - had he benefited or not - people would have listened. He also likes to do a little preaching in his spare time, I believe. Perhaps he should remind himself of what the eighth commandment says about stealing.

[anarchy]

Glen,

dude of all the guys you were probably ripped the most, you did a stunning job in the qualifing (I gave both dave and neil stick for being trounced by the mere 650).

The officials obivously thought that you had swapped transponders with Stroud and needed to fix that by swapping you around on the grid. of course on the up side once they swap the transponder problem in the computer and swap the names back around I'm sure Andrew will see the error and send that 2nd place prize money right on over (as they say YEAH RIGHT!).

GREAT RIDEING ON THE DAY ANY WAY GLEN AND ALL THE REST OF THE BOYS THAT HAD TO DEAL WITH THE GRID POSITION HEAD F**K.

[Drunken Monkey]

I'm suprised this is the first time I've read about something like this actually. Motorsport in NZ is rife with this kind of BS, a similar thing happened to Anton Tallot in Targa to give Jim Richards his media covered "win". Stamp it out before it becomes commonplace.