Cemetary circuit 2007: Farce

[GSVR]

No, you got a new grid spot for the second race based on your first race...at least for me in Formula Wanganui.

Thats for that. I thought that was how it was run. So if someone didn't actually improve there grid position or went backwards then their starting grid position was probably fairly close to the mark.

If thats the case then if you have a DNF in the first race you start off the back.

[GSVR]

long live bernard racing

People are looking for some answers about what happend this year. Was it all the officials doing or did others have input?

Who did the officails talk to before deciding to change the rules?

I see it as just common respect. The reason stated was safety. Whats unsafe about Glen Williams starting off the front of the grid?

Haven't the riders that got denied positions closer to the front lost the opportunity for there sponsers to get seen on the TV coverage?

[Mastaphata]

I still feel questions need to be asked on the ability of the clerk of course and the steward as to their ability to enforce the rules

[huck farley]

I still feel questions need to be asked on the ability of the clerk of course and the steward as to their ability to enforce the rules

Good call mate. I'll second that!!

[roadracingoldfart]

Hi again,i know im just the newbie on here but have been reading this thread with great interest.I was hoping for some response from riders in the know as to my thoughts on who should be held accountable to this farce.Its my understanding that in all forms of motorsport in this country its the Clerk of Course or Stewards of the day to make sure the rules are enforced.Should the question now be put to M.N.Z of the ability of the C.O.C and steward on the day as it seems to me they were to gutless to enfoce the rules

At the risk of repeating myself heres how i see the chain of command.......

The club askes MNZ for a permit under the rules set down by MNZ.

MNZ approves the permit and issues it to be in accordance to the MNZ rules as were set out by the permit application which are set out in the entry regulations we all sign as accepting.

The club advises the entrants of the rules as set down by the permit issued by MNZ.

The riders turn up to attend a compulsory riders brief to ask questions and have any relevant subseqeunt regulations /track proccedures announced.

Any further subseqeunt regulation changes made alluding to altered weather / safety issues or whatever must be announced at a further compulsory riders briefing to notify all of the relevant changes.

Its clear this proccess was NOT followed so in my eye its a case of the club that attained the permit from MNZ, DID NOT follow the rules as set down by the permit MNZ issued so MNZ has been wronged by the permit not being adhered to.
MNZ MUST come to the fore and hold a hearing / De-brief as to why the rules of the permit were not followed and the effected riders must be notified of any outcome.

What MNZ does in the way of punishment or whatever MUST also follow a very strict set of guidlines and thats why we all belong to MNZ.
They represent us the riders not the clubs pockets or reputations.

Cheers Paul
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.

[James Deuce]

Wanganui is the jewel in MNZ's road-racing crown. They're not going to censure the Wanganui organisers for making it up as they go along.

When are you guys going to learn? Road-racing in NZ isn't about organising events for riders to compete in so spectators, both on-site and through TV, can watch and enjoy. It's an old mates network. The riders and spectators are just irritants. This seems to be a model that has become entrenched throughout the world where a few make money, the racing is boring, and if the wrong person looks like winning we'll just dock some points for an historical rule infraction.

If you want fair and entertaining racing, buy a pocket bike and race it against your mates up and down a quiet cul-de-sac.

[White trash]

At the risk of repeating myself heres how i see the chain of command.......

The club askes MNZ for a permit under the rules set down by MNZ.

MNZ approves the permit and issues it to be in accordance to the MNZ rules as were set out by the permit application which are set out in the entry regulations we all sign as accepting.

The club advises the entrants of the rules as set down by the permit issued by MNZ.

The riders turn up to attend a compulsory riders brief to ask questions and have any relevant subseqeunt regulations /track proccedures announced.

Any further subseqeunt regulation changes made alluding to altered weather / safety issues or whatever must be announced at a further compulsory riders briefing to notify all of the relevant changes.

Its clear this proccess was NOT followed so in my eye its a case of the club that attained the permit from MNZ, DID NOT follow the rules as set down by the permit MNZ issued so MNZ has been wronged by the permit not being adhered to.
MNZ MUST come to the fore and hold a hearing / De-brief as to why the rules of the permit were not followed and the effected riders must be notified of any outcome.

What MNZ does in the way of punishment or whatever MUST also follow a very strict set of guidlines and thats why we all belong to MNZ.
They represent us the riders not the clubs pockets or reputations.

Cheers Paul
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.

Thankyou Paul.
I'll be sure to forward you Paul Pav's reply if I get one.

Also, to the guy who's jumping up and down about how much respect Bernard Racing deserves, I used to respect the man totally.

[scracha]

Rival Motorcycle Racing League anyone.............?

Now that isn't a bad idea. On the balance of comments I've heard and from what I've witnessed, MNZ are pissing road riders off big style.

[Kickaha]

Now that isn't a bad idea. On the balance of comments I've heard and from what I've witnessed, MNZ are pissing road riders off big style.

I understand some Off road Motorcycle clubs have done this but I really doubt it would happen with Roadracing

[Billy]

Having followed this thread for the last week I have found it amusing that when the officials decide to change the rules mid meeting,Suddenly it becomes firstly Stroudys fault and then when that doesnt pan out. Further down the track somehow it becomes Brian Bernards fault.I guess if you take into consideration the huge amount of their lives they have dedicated to roadracing both locally and representing their country and all over the world taking risks most of us wouldnt dream of just to make a mark on the world stage.I could go on for hours about the exploits of these guys and a number of other Kiwis who have endured huge amounts of pain and suffering to get where they are now and Im sure if they had been at Wanganui on the day ,They also would be blamed for what happened.It appears to me another case of tall poppy syndrome.The fact is ,The officials made the decision not them and I doubt if anybody who has posted on this thread was offered a front row grid position when they qualified 12th would turn it down,In fact over the following 2 days at the Taupo roadrace spectacular I had a number of people tell me they had grid positions they didnt deserve and I noticed not 1 of them turned it down and nobody complained about it.If there is a problem on the day there is a due process to be followed that in most cases will rectify the problem and it doesnt include this website!!!Furthermore regarding an MNZ inquest,An appeal has to be lodged within 7 days as I understand it.Also on the subject of Bernard racing using overseas riders it should be noted that a few years ago when Brian opted to use young local riders because none of the front runners were available it backfired on him big time as some of his bigger sponsors withdrew support due to lack of results and as this team is run as a proffesional outfit it struggled to survive at an acceptable level and there were ongoing issues with riders commitment and ability too meet their commitments within the team.Add to that the fact that Yamaha NZ (Yamaha AUS) Have input into rider recruitment and you will see why the team operates as it does.While I dont completely agree with everything they do Brian & K C put a huge amount of time and effort into that team every year and I know for fact about 4 weeks ago they had a garage full of racebikes and no riders due to circumstances beyond their control.One thing that is obvious to me is.If enough whingers piss them off and they pull the pin the grids at National level will be a lot poorer and the whole scene would be a lot less proffesional.Moral of the story:If you got a problem on the day,Do something about it right then through the riders rep and if that doesnt work then lodge an official protest/complaint with MNZ,Blaming other riders and team managers on this or anyother website will neither change or achieve ANYTHING.Cheers Billy

[White trash]

Thanks for your comments Billy. For the record, we did try and complain to the riders rep, however the race officials neglected to name one in riders briefing. When we enquired as to who the riders rep was, not one of the race officials could tell us, they announced it over the pits PA over an hour later. I also have lodged an official complaint with MNZ, I eagerly await their reply.

As to who I'm trying to lay blame on, and the origial complainant, you might want to show me where I blamed any rider or team for what happened. The organisers on the day are to blame for the late "rule change", however due to circumstances on the day, it's pretty obvious it was at someones instigation. For what other reason would they staunchly support a rule they made a fuss of in riders briefing, then minutes befoe the race change the rules? I've read an email from Brian which essentialy states that his riders were faster than the rest of us (they mostly were) and they deserved those grid positions (they didn't, they failed to qualify)

As an excercise, let's chuck the jandal on the other foot.

Wanganui, 2008. The Sadowski brothers and Mr Jones ride (uncomfortably) in a far from perfect qualifying session, but derserve a hard earned second row position. Go to take their spots on the dummy grid to find that Glen Williams, Jimmy Mair, Neil Martin, Carey Briar and David Lees have filled the second row, the organisers "just decided" that in the name of "saftey" these guys were better off towards the front and the official Yamaha team would need to be bumped back a couple of rows.

Who the hell would be jumping up and down on the grid calling everyone a pack of wankers? Would the decision be overturned? Most probably.

While we're on the Andrew Stroud issue, I actually believe Andrew would have happily taken his original 12th spot on the grid and ridden his arse off to get up the front.

[rwh]

Just out of curiosity, how is the rider's rep chosen? Presumably by an election of some kind, otherwise they wouldn't be properly 'representative'. Does the announcement not happen immediately after that?

Richard

[scott411]

a riders rep is normally someone who gets given a job, they used to call for volenteers or nominations at riders breifings but the silence is often deafining, when i steward major motocross meetings i try to get someone who is not riding, but has a good veiw of the sport, and normally from outside the area.

it is the clerk of the course (as club rep) the Stwerd of the meeting (mnz rep) and the riders rep that makes the call to change rules,

if anyone has a problem with it, contact mnz, or the steward, or stump up the fee to appeal it,

[Storm]

People are looking for some answers about what happend this year. Was it all the officials doing or did others have input?

Who did the officails talk to before deciding to change the rules?

I see it as just common respect. The reason stated was safety. Whats unsafe about Glen Williams starting off the front of the grid?

Haven't the riders that got denied positions closer to the front lost the opportunity for there sponsers to get seen on the TV coverage?

So if I have this right-you are saying that although WT and other got shafted, they should just bend over and take it for the team and be happy to do so?

Thats a bit much

[Billy]

Sorry if you took my comments personally Jimmy,They were not directed at you,Rather the direction this thread had taken and the fact that the finger was clearly being pointed in the wrong direction and that nothing was going to be achieved by what was being stated on this thread.A point for you to take forward from this point is to never take no for an answer as long as youre sure youre right,I know from personal experience some of those officiating at Wangas this year are not frightened to try and bullshit there way through a problem they have created cause they know not many people keep up to date with the rule book and in some cases the people are new and arent quite sure themselves.I had an incident late last year at a meeting where 3 or 4 things were handled badly by those officiating in the period of 1 race.At the end of the race I rode straight to race control,Parked my bike against the wall and sorted the problem right then and there.Sometimes it can be that easy sometimes not,But it sure as shit aint gonna get sorted on this forum,Yours Billy