The Mouldy Bread Theory. Evolution explained. Religion exposed for what it is.

[Conquiztador]

Here it is peeps. The basics only:

Take a piece of bread. Put it on a table. In two days it goes hard. Nothing else. And that is how it will stay.

Take a second piece of bread. Put it in a plastic bag. Place it on the table next to the first one. Inside two days there will be mould growing on it.

That, my friends, is all we are. Mould. Right time. Right place. No reason. No planning. No creator. Just mould that has no purpose.

Live your life to the fullest.

Now.

[Sanx]

Here it is peeps. The basics only:

Take a piece of bread. Put it on a table. In two days it goes hard. Nothing else. And that is how it will stay.

Take a second piece of bread. Put it in a plastic bag. Place it on the table next to the first one. Inside two days there will be mold growing on it.

That, my friends, is all we are. Mold. Right time. Right place. No reason. No planning. No creator. Just mold that has no purpose.

Live your life to the fullest.

Now.

No no no. Any religious freak will pull that one apart. For instance:

Mould requires moisture to grow. The dry bread doesn't have any. The plastic bag, however, retains the moisture allowing the mould spores already on the bread to grow. That fact that mould can grow on a piece of bread shows the god's magnificence in allowing life to flourish no matter what the conditions. God designed the mould spores to float, unseen, through the air and god's greatest gift to mankind - free will - has allowed us sinners to carry put such experiments to further witness god's glory.

You're going to have to try better than that one. Problem is, as soon as you present them with a question they can't answer, you get the standard "We humans cannot fathom god's purpose" answer.

But here's a good poser for them. If everything in the universe has a creator, where did god come from?

[Conquiztador]

No no no. Any religious freak will pull that one apart. For instance:

Mould requires moisture to grow. The dry bread doesn't have any. The plastic bag, however, retains the moisture allowing the mould spores already on the bread to grow. That fact that mould can grow on a piece of bread shows the god's magnificence in allowing life to flourish no matter what the conditions. God designed the mould spores to float, unseen, through the air and god's greatest gift to mankind - free will - has allowed us sinners to carry put such experiments to further witness god's glory.

You're going to have to try better than that one. Problem is, as soon as you present them with a question they can't answer, you get the standard "We humans cannot fathom god's purpose" answer.

But here's a good poser for them. If everything in the universe has a creator, where did god come from?

It is clear that you have done your homework. But the basic fact is still there: Right place, right time, mould has no reason, and as we humans are part of the Mouldy Bread Theory, we too have no reason.

And re the answer: There is no question, therefore no answer is required.

[Harry33]

So we are mold? Is Jesus the bread? What about the Jesus fish thingy? Is Satan cheese? I like cheese, does that mean I'm evil? I'm so confused.

[Winston001]

But here's a good poser for them. If everything in the universe has a creator, where did god come from?

Hmmm......so where did the alpha point, the Big Bang come from? We know that happened but not why or how? So is God or any deity going to be any more explicable?

What a way to start the year!

[civil]

So we are mould!
Ever looked at what the chances are of everything being just so here on earth to sustain life. Like your example of the piece of bread. The mould didn't just happen, it took some form of intervention to sustain the growth of the mould. Take away just one element and you do not get life.
The world we live in is finely balanced to sustain life, and that does not happen by chance.

As for the other question, God aways existed. This sure beats the other answer that "first there was nothing and then it exploded!!"

Also if we are all mould, then it would be OK for me to come along and beat you up, rape you wife and daughter, then steal your bike. I mean we are only mould anyway. Right and wrong do not exist, they are just concepts in our mouldy minds.

[pzkpfw]

So we are mould!
Ever looked at what the chances are of everything being just so here on earth to sustain life. Like your example of the piece of bread. The mould didn't just happen, it took some form of intervention to sustain the growth of the mould. Take away just one element and you do not get life.
The world we live in is finely balanced to sustain life, and that does not happen by chance.

You missed the point.

Conditions allowed life to evolve, and now that life says "gee aren't we neat?". If conditions were not right, we'd simply not be here (or at least not in this form) to say that.

To look backwards and say it is amazing that conditions were the way they were, is backwards.

A puddle may as well think "isn't it great that this pothole was here, just for me!".

As for the other question, God aways existed. This sure beats the other answer...

That is not a better answer. For God to make the Universe, makes God more than the Universe. You've made the "where did it all come from?" problem bigger.

...the other answer that "first there was nothing and then it exploded!!"

That's a misrepresentation. It wasn't exactly "nothing" - it's more that we don't know (yet). The big bang (which was actually a bad name for it) helped, for example, to remove the evidence for what came before. Science is not "finished" yet. It's not as simple as "God did it, now let's have lunch."

Also if we are all mould, then it would be OK for me to come along and beat you up, rape you wife and daughter, then steal your bike. I mean we are only mould anyway. Right and wrong do not exist, they are just concepts in our mouldy minds.

Yeah, the (insert religion here) view that if not for the religion it'd be OK to be "evil".

Concepts of right and wrong are things we've evolved over time, it makes societies function better, and has been part of the natural selection process.

Further, we have evolved intelligence, and can use it to modify our actions. To make our own minds up about how we behave.

Just look at how religions freely modify "right" and "wrong" (Crusades, anyone? How about an inquisition? Suicide bomber? ...)

This "why not just be evil?" question is one that really makes me sick about the "believers". If you need the "big stick" to modify your behaviour, that's just sad for you.

(To be fair, the reason we invented religions was to help modify our behaviours and make societies function well, while "answering" the big questions, so if that [still] helps you tick, that's cool.)

Cheers,

[vixter]

god man you need to get out more!!

[Fatjim]

Yeah, the (insert religion here) view that if not for the religion it'd be OK to be "evil".

Concepts of right and wrong are things we've evolved over time, it makes societies function better, and has been part of the natural selection process.

Further, we have evolved intelligence, and can use it to modify our actions. To make our own minds up about how we behave.

Just look at how religions freely modify "right" and "wrong" (Crusades, anyone? How about an inquisition? Suicide bomber? ...)

This "why not just be evil?" question is one that really makes me sick about the "believers". If you need the "big stick" to modify your behaviour, that's just sad for you.

Cheers,

Actually, you've missed the point here yourself. The point here if we are just an evolved sporum then there is no right or wrong outside of our induvidual beliefs. If I believe its ok to rape and beat up your wife, how can it be wrong? Religion does not make right or wrong, more often than not its wrong.


Athiests have a real issue dealing with the difference between religion and faith.

Religion is a set of rules that dealing with spiritual matters.

Faith is belief in something, usually based on some element of fact, but with a huge dolloping of trust in the unknown.

Thats why athiests can go on shitting on other religions (atheism is a religion too, and a faith based on my description), but will always struggle to dislodge a persons faith.

[pzkpfw]

Actually, you've missed the point here yourself. The point here if we are just an evolved sporum then there is no right or wrong outside of our induvidual beliefs. If I believe its ok to rape and beat up your wife, how can it be wrong? Religion does not make right or wrong, more often than not its wrong.

The missed point was the one in the OP, that one up in the beggining of this thread.

As animals, we generally don't eat our children like mice and and such sometimes do. We also don't eat the kids next door either. Our "morals" have transcended (evolved beyond) our personal boundaries.

If, without a God or belief or religion or faith (wanna split hairs some more?) a person can't "behave", that's fine, for them.

I've simply evolved to be a higher life-form. I'll show it by going out for a ride, now, on this nice sunny day...

(added later: ...on which I learned there is a coffee-van at the Paekakariki lookout)

Cheers,

[Drew]

Great read thus far...

The big bang did not come from nowhere however, the theory most commonly subscribed to is that in the begining, there was infact almost nothing, only darkness. In it was a miniscule spec of matter, near infinate in mass. This spec was so dense that the atoms had little space to move and bounce, so at some point it flew apart in a spectacular fashion. As everything moved out from this centre point it expanded to a comfy size for all the atoms contained to buzz around in a more stable environment.

Some bits are made up of more and some less of the different elements, thus creating different situations for evolution.

Just to throw the theology back in, I believe the above discription to be fact, yet I have faith in a higher power. I cannot explain why I believe what I do, yet can (and often do) argue both sides of the coin.

There WAS a guy called Jesus a couple thousand years ago, but I do not put much stock in his divinity. He simply had to exsist with all that is written about him.

[avrflr]

Conditions allowed life to evolve, and now that life says "gee aren't we neat?". If conditions were not right, we'd simply not be here (or at least not in this form) to say that.

To look backwards and say it is amazing that conditions were the way they were, is backwards.

A puddle may as well think "isn't it great that this pothole was here, just for me!".

I've always liked the weak anthropic principle and you've summed it up nicely.

IMHO, proving or disproving the existence of god is well beyond the grasp of humanity at the present time. I have no religious faith, but I will admit that, if god wanted to hide from me (and it would seem he does) he certainly could.

If god does indeed exist, he has done a very neat job of creating us a universe which provides us with plenty of reason to believe in the plausibility of his non-existence. The people who have convinced themselves that it is obvious on the basis of the available evidence that god exists, are effectively criticizing god's work.

[Steam]

If conditions were not right, we'd simply not be here (or at least not in this form) to say that.
To look backwards and say it is amazing that conditions were the way they were, is backwards.
A puddle may as well think "isn't it great that this pothole was here, just for me!".

Yes yes yes! Thanks for pointing that out. So many otherwise smart people seem to believe the Anthropic Principle applies, but they've got it all backwards. I just can't understand why anyone would think it's reasonable. (well, any thinking person. I can understand why spiritual types believe it.)

Good example with the puddle.

[rainman]

As animals, we generally don't eat our children like mice and and such sometimes do. We also don't eat the kids next door either. Our "morals" have transcended (evolved beyond) our personal boundaries.

If, without a God or belief or religion or faith (wanna split hairs some more?) a person can't "behave", that's fine, for them.

But we do do some pretty revolting things. And it's often the religious that do...

Core Buddhism. Seriously, it makes life a lot simpler...

[Drew]

I just can't understand why anyone would think it's reasonable. (well, any thinking person. I can understand why spiritual types believe it.)

Look up the discription of faith, and you will have your reason why intelligent thinking people consider it reasonable.

My way of explaining it is that it requires emotion and imagination. The two things that seperate humans from other species.