Feminism - what is it?

[Coyote]

I was emo before it was cool

Then I turned off the fan that was spraying all the shit, now I'm badass. If I get dumped, fuck it, I'll become a pornstar

[Blue Velvet]

There's been significant progress in applied feminist schools of thought that have bypassed NZ completely. NZ's retarded attitude to feminism is borne out in the attitudes of some of the more strident KB feminists who insist that men should be punished for the sins of their forefathers.

Perhaps that is why some NZ women choose to eschew 'feminism'?

[James Deuce]

And because of some "raving feminists" in the past, you get to choose to do those things.

Feminism of that sort looks at a very short historical window. The message has been repeated over and over for 40 years. Men are oppressors.

We've had the same freedoms that you've had: The freedom to die penniless, the freedom to never own anything, the freedom to be press-ganged after a night on the town (looking at Western European-Centric history here), and the most important distinction that seems to be a mystical touchstone: the freedom not to vote. Less than 170 years ago, if you weren't a land owner, you didn't vote. Most blokes barely owned more than they could easily carry, a couple of hundred years ago.

[James Deuce]

Perhaps that is why some NZ women choose to eschew 'feminism'?

Yes, but you yourself have bought the "there should be no gender role distinction" myth in its entirety. You are different to me. Your brain works differently, you have a different arrangement of reproductive organs, and your hormonal balance is significantly different. Your upper body strength needs significant conditioning to get to the same level as a relatively sendentary man.

"I don’t subscribe to traditional gender roles."

That's a shame, because children, who aren't capable of reason prior to 4 years of age as a very general average figure, look to men and women for different things without thinking about it. They're not conditioned either, despite some of the feminist dogma out there.

[Blue Velvet]

Men are oppressors.

At times I find women more oppressive than men.

[Hitcher]

Men are all violent rapists who like contact sports and beer; thus completing the cycle. We are inferior to women in all respects, and the sooner we recognise and accept this reality the better things will be for all. Women don't need men -- indeed it is possible for women to procreate without male "intervention" in any form. But men need women. And contact sports and beer. It is this inevitable redundancy that will create future challenges for all of us so unfortunate to be stricken with the Curse of the Y Chromosome.

[Blue Velvet]

Yes, but you yourself have bought the "there should be no gender role distinction" myth in its entirety. You are different to me. Your brain works differently, you have a different arrangement of reproductive organs, and your hormonal balance is significantly different. Your upper body strength needs significant conditioning to get to the same level as a relatively sendentary man.

"I don’t subscribe to traditional gender roles."

That's a shame, because children, who aren't capable of reason prior to 4 years of age as a very general average figure, look to men and women for different things without thinking about it. They're not conditioned either, despite some of the feminist dogma out there.

But I also said 'but I am a female', which is acknowledgement of the fact men and women are different.

Edit: Funny you should mention upper body strength, as I've used this as an example myself a few times in the last week or two.

[Nagash]

Well in this day and age feminism is actually means from the point of few of the average female. Not a free-rights psycho activist.

Had an interesting exam at school in a Geography paper where I had to write an essay on the point of view of main geographical locations from the point of view of a feminist. (What a female thinks of the CBD, Local Village etc. etc.) Unfortunately I wasn't exactly paying attention and I thought they meant the psycho kind.. didn't do too well on that one..

[Blue Velvet]

Men are all violent rapists who like contact sports and beer; thus completing the cycle. We are inferior to women in all respects, and the sooner we recognise and accept this reality the better things will be for all. Women don't need men -- indeed it is possible for women to procreate without male "intervention" in any form. But men need women. And contact sports and beer. It is this inevitable redundancy that will create future challenges for all of us so unfortunate to be stricken with the Curse of the Y Chromosome.

LOL, made me think of Sirens of Titan by Mister Vonnegut

[Hitcher]

LOL, made me think of Sirens of Titan by Mister Vonnegut

If I could multi-task (i.e. think and type at the same time), I'd post a witty response.

[jrandom]

... upper body strength, as I've used this as an example myself a few times in the last week or two.

Awww, yes, you have such cute widdle hands!

[Number One]

Let's look at how things are right here and now, and put in place measures the correct any shortcomings - on both sides.

“We are not able to effect any significant change until we recognise the dynamic immune system by which we continuously manufacture non-change.”

Just a thought AND gosh I don't have any answers....But my thoughts (in addition to all that especially Man Down Under and 007xy have said) is...

As a woman, wife, mother to a boy and self confessed tomboy - I DO think things have gone out of balance...no wonder (some) men are confused, defensive and a bit angry with 'hairy feminists'. My mental model around the 'Feminist' label is a negative one and frankly I would hate to be called a feminist as I wouldn't automatically assume I was being referred to as someone who believes in the equal and fair rights of both sexes. Agree with Man Down Under and many others on here - it should be about equality and hey life sucks and is unfair sometimes and from my view that actually goes BOTH ways.

I am a strong woman, will speak my mind and do the boys jobs round the house, expect hubby to do some of the 'girls jobs' too (infact he is better at many of them...no one cleans an oven like Sully60) this is all IMHO healthy for our boy to witness.

I DO object to how men have been run out of certain professions and activities (where are the men that my boy can look up to at daycare? Nowhere to be seen!) and while I don't 'expect' a man to open the door for me or offer to help me with a heavy load...I certainly do appreciate chivalry and am always quick to follow any I am awarded with up with a genuine "thank you kind sir!"

I love men to be men and I am not one for pretty boys or softy boys but I do like it when a man feels confident and safe enough to let his tender side show with me. Go get em boys...just don't hate us girls for what the hairy feminists have achieved..we don't all think you should be kept in cages and taken out now and then just for amusement!!!

To sum up - I guess I would call myself a 'ChauvaFem' - boys and girls can and should do anything!

NB: Difference is good but sticking us all in boxes is NOT

[James Deuce]

But I also said 'but I am a female', which is acknowledgement of the fact men and women are different.

You did, but I don't think you accept that the differences are unequivocal. For some reason those differences have become a bad thing.

Those gender roles you speak of have grown out of the birth of the Protestant Church and the Industrial revolution. The Nuclear family is not as it has always been and better not be how it will always be.

[Blue Velvet]

You did, but I don't think you accept that the differences are unequivocal. For some reason those differences have become a bad thing.

No way. Differences are good.

[Blue Velvet]

Awww, yes, you have such cute widdle hands!

Eeeeeek. Actually they're really useful for getting into tight spaces.