Feminism - what is it?

[Trudes]

Yes, you're the perfect height, too.

*pat pat*

midgets are the correct height for nut punching!

[ManDownUnder]

midgets are the correct height for nut punching!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh bling for that one ... best laugh of the week... (go get 'im!)

[El Dopa]

Or Fourth Wave thinkers like Susan Faludi

Bling for mentioning Susan Faludi - I found 'backlash' and 'stiffed' to be very interesting reads.

[Trudes]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh bling for that one ... best laugh of the week... (go get 'im!)

hehe, nothing like a bit of cracking nuts. This thread was started at about the same time as I started watching Kill Bill, a bit of unfortunate bad luck really.....

[Her_C4]

That's not to say I don't appreciate the views of men. I do - I just happen to have most of them already. I have the most to gain - the most to learn - from women. Why the hell would I want to deny myself of that... and like any zealot, I'm keen to convert others to my point of view.

Great response - I have met many men who think like you do, we all (men AND women) have a lot to learn from each other don't we? The world will be a pretty boring place if we choose to forget or ignore this.

I don't associate myself with the word 'feminist'. I'm just me, enjoying being a woman and all that entails. So sometimes I've been in the kitchen cooking my man some eggs, and others I've been out being a hooligan on a motorycle, or scuba diving, or skydiving or doing any of the other 'dangerous boy sports' (as my mum calls them) that take my fancy. I'm still feminine, but I'm having lots of fun.

Yes - you are who you are... gotta' admit I am pretty much the same.

personally I prefer the term gender equality to feminism.

I think to a degree, feminism has been a victim of its own success. In NZ almost all the glaring inequalities towards women have been addressed.

I note that you say 'almost all'... does this include equal pay for equal work in your view
?

LOL... yes they are out there. The ocassional social handgrenade just waiting to go off in the face of unsuspecting penis bearers LOL.

My all time favourite - at Massey University (PN) book shop. I get to a glass door that opened towards me just as someone else did so I opened it and waited for them to come through... common courtesy ... no?

Apparently not. It was yet another affront to her already subjugated existnce in patriarcal... blah blah blah. She went right off at me... so I did the decent thing - cut her off walked through and made sure the door was closed behind me so she'd have to do the whole damned thing herself.

To this day I'm glad she did it. It gave me plenty to think about, and a story I'll carry for the rest of my life. Part of me pities her though. I didn't take the time (or get the chance) to understand her side of the story.

To get the example and reframe it to what I would like to see happen... she would have stepped through - then held the door for me. THAT'S equality

Equality? Or just plain good manners?? I open doors for 'people' regardless of their gender......... I was bought up to respect others - I can't help it ... it was beaten into me.....

I agree - women with moderate views may feel that they can't relate to feminism - if they perceive it to be strong minded and antagonistic. But to me, feminism/ecofeminism is about understanding why we have arrived at the place we have, what forces have shaped our constitutions, our laws, our societal constructs.

Before we can move forward we have to understand where we've come from - and understand without blame.

Are we just talking about feminism here???? Shouldn't we all, as individuals and as a society understand where we have come from (indeed without blame) before we can move move forward with any confidence?

[Grub]

I was going to check your grammar but it would have taken too long....

Remind me to show you where the Backspace and Delete keys are. AntiSpacehog 3.11 uses them for quote editing, should be ok to try.

[Sharry]

Women with opinions are cute.

Thank you, jrandom, I shall now preserve all my opinions, preferably in vodka.

[Grahameeboy]

Remind me to show you where the Backspace and Delete keys are. AntiSpacehog 3.11 uses them for quote editing, should be ok to try.

Ok........................

[Her_C4]

A bit but is IS my thread.... I laughed at the quote of the day today on http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ attributed to Nietzsche .... sounds like the sort of thing my partner would say....

"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent."

[Edbear]

...the fact men and women are different.

Thank God for that...

[Disco Dan]

So - What is ‘feminism’ to you?

Pendulum swing...


In a nut shell - women unhappy in the 50s all the 'equal rights' for women malarky and suffrage etc came about... now it is swinging further past the natural balance point with women taking on 'male jobs' only women being given custody to children in courts, pedophiles are suspected in every male school teacher and women have started wearing suit and ties to work... that brings me to lesbianism - I blame the 70s for that and all those luverley drugs, but women are slowing 'giving up' finding a man that 'fits' their criteria, a criteria that is so 'fairytale' and complex that only an artificially created robot man could even get close to to fulfilling. In short we are all getting picky, turning the bread over and just laying on that butter real thick.

....now bring on the hairy militant lesbian lynch mob!

Sorry chicks but you want equality in the work force, equal respect - but get pissy when us men dont open doors for you? Now THATS fucked up - but very typical female logic/thinking.

Interestingly enough it was so long ago that I felt very strongly about lesbianism and would have had no guilt making it illegal. Now I know it is just a mutation of 'normal' genes/thinking and that mutation has survived long enough for it to have spread and become accepted and 'normal' in society. ..oh and my friend at work is doing a BIG thesis on lesbianism - apparently im about 3 pages worth just because of my odd views!!!!

now im off to work.. the clinically insane are waiting for my sane wisdom....

[Grahameeboy]

Thank God for that...

and remember who decided they were better than God...........

[ManDownUnder]

Equality? Or just plain good manners?? I open doors for 'people' regardless of their gender......... I was bought up to respect others - I can't help it ... it was beaten into me.....

LOL you and me both re the beatings.

In my my the opening door example is both equality and good manners. I'm polite to everyone equally. Just as I should be rude to everyone equally if it ever came to that (not the way I was dragged up).

Interestingly this is an issue I've had to grapple with from the other side of the fence. My family is quite traditional in many ways with the man expected to walk on the right of a woman down the footpath (reason being it sheilds/protects her from oncoming people), or sleeps on the side of the bed nearest the door (protection in the event of a break in) etc.

On this issue though (feminism in general)... back at Uni I did a degree in Business Management, and figured it was white middle class stuff, so as part of the degree did a few "interesting" but related papers. My all time favourite was Career Development for Women at Work (Murna Thompson, Massey Uni in PN).

I swear I learned about 5 times as much as anyone else in the class (I was only guy in a class of 40+). Each theory or topic explored would be met with the usual "mm hmm..." and learning by everyone else in the class... but I was sitting there just amased at some of the concepts coming at me. I never knew they existed (why would I?).

Glass ceilings, natural career impacts introduced by childbearing, breastfeeding etc etc etc. Right down to the way we think differently (generaliasation here but..)

[Disco Dan]

Why are people concerned about the situation of boys in today’s education and how sensible are recent suggestions for dealing with this issue?



Since the beginning of formal education there has been a definite bias towards males, starting with the complete exclusion of females, then a gradual increase until a state of equality was supposedly reached. Now it seems that the huge push by feminists starting at the beginning of the 1900’s has had a follow on effect in today’s social and educational perspectives. The movements appear to have continued past the balance point, past the point of equality (Wikipedia, 2007). This has in turn created a situation where boys in the education system are underachieving. So what is there to be worried about? What can be done about it? Should anything be done?

Although the suffrage movements of the early 1900’s were not directed at education specifically, a definite trend was started. The 1960’s brought about feminist inequality issues and this was subsequently resurrected again as recently as the 1990’s. So could this century old trend of female insecurities be as influential today, affecting our education system this time and more specifically, males? New Zealand’s education system is required to cater to both males and females equally, so why is it that recent research is indicating the contrary? Research conducted by the Australian Education Committee, stated that a basic trait that boys and girls learn differently is being ignored. Also through the use of certain assessment methods and teaching styles it is remarkably straightforward to create a specific advantage towards boys or girls (AEC, 2002, p22). Is there a connection with this, and the fact that also stated is that, in New Zealand 80% of primary school teachers are female? Policies have been in place that caters for the specific learning needs of girls for the last 12 years, could this have something to do with the boy’s underachievement? There are many other factors that appear to be contributing towards their underachievement, including the popular ‘call out gap’ notion; with varied and conflicting evidence making analysis next to impossible (Sommers, C.H, 2000, p. 70). In addition there is evidence suggesting attentiveness is an important factorization that should be considered, as boys are generally less attentive (compared to girls) and thus less likely to internalize information and process what is being taught.

So what can be done? One of the main factors has already been stated, and that is the hugely disproportionate ratio of male/female primary school teachers. New Zealand families are becoming increasingly complex and more are missing the male role model. As a result, research is beginning to suggest that boy’s disruptive and sometimes violent behavior is a direct result of this important social experience being missing from their lives (Sommers, C.H, 2000, p. 73). Attracting more male teachers into the profession can only make improvements to New Zealand’s education system regardless of anyone’s opinions on role models. Higher pay, better training and increased awareness of these issues will be of great benefit to our upcoming generations of boys (AEC, 2002, p23). The Australian Committee even recommended that children be tested for hearing and vision problems before the commencement of their schooling to pick up on any potential problems before they even begin their schooling. This paper has simply created more questions than it has answered but hopefully more research will continue on this subject and some of these questions will be answered.

Daniel S




PS - No taking the micky out of my eassay writing skills please!!! I know im rubbish at it!!!!

[MSTRS:Me]

Bring back John Wayne and Clark Gable, I say!!!

And Linda Lovelace...

NZ's retarded attitude to feminism is borne out in the attitudes of some of the more strident KB feminists who insist that men should be punished for the sins of their forefathers.

Substitute 'Maori Activism' for 'Feminism' - not much difference really. Selfish, shortsighted, destructive.