Roll on the 10th December Smokefree bars

[Jackrat]

Beware the long, seductive and politically-correct wedge that is smokefree legislation, gentle readers, for it is the beginning of the end.

So what's next? Get ready for the "fat tax". Enjoy those sausages, chops and chicken drumsticks for the day of reckoning is nigh.

And then? Sugar, the new cigarette smoke. Bye bye Coke, so long Tui beer, farewell to chocolate, I think I'm going to cry. Bye bye sugar goodbye.

Motorcyclists of all people were I thought committed to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But I guess I was wrong.

How many posts have I read on this site howling indignation at such things as:

-- The Police
-- Hidden speed cameras
-- Exhaust noise restrictions
-- Discriminatory ACC levies
-- Cheesecutter median barriers
-- Unsignposted roadworks (to name but a few).

Wake up and smell the coffee while ye may!

The Assyrian came down as a wolf on the fold...

That goes over most NIMBY heads around here.
Odd how many jump on the bandwagon yet scream bloody murder when it's their turn.
Pack of fucking sheep most of em'

[Paul in NZ]

That goes over most NIMBY heads around here.
Odd how many jump on the bandwagon yet scream bloody murder when it's their turn.
Pack of fucking sheep most of em'

Hang on a minute... With the greatest possible respect I think you are scewing the argument with emotion to suit your self. Just because you have been allowed to do something for a period of time does not make it right. (ask the guys on Pitcairn island)

Any society will have rules and the rules change from time to time. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon at all but you do need to accept that times have changed and smoking in public areas where other people have no choice but to breath your smoke is no longer acceptable (in the eyes of the law).

Whether it should have been banned, adequate extraction supplied or something else is another argument again.

No one is jumping on any band wagons or being PC. If I don't like something (and I don't like secondhand smoke) why does that some how make me less manly to say so? I might have a nasty habit of shitting in public but commonly held belief is currently that this is not a good thing to do and should be discouraged.

If you come to our place you are more than welcome to smoke outside and i don't really care what you do with the butts, its a big garden but Vicki and I don't smoke. Fair enough you say, your house your rules...

It's when it gets public that the problems occur. If we were at the pub and you light up, my choice is to suck down your smoke or leave? So in fact you are removing my choice not to smoke? And thats the key! If you want to smoke, please do so but don't make me do it too! If we were on a group ride and you were a much faster rider than me, you would not force me to ride at your speed would you? No, I have to ride my own ride and the same applies to smoking, the non smokers are being pushed out of public areas by inconsiderate smokers!

hence the law change!

So why does a group have a right to enforce this? In this society because they attracted enough support to force a law change.

Now it might be they ban my noisey bike? I'd be well pissed off BUT if the other option was don't ride it? So I try to be careful and not piss off my neighbours and ride it flat out in open spaces only.

As for calling people a pack of fucking sheep? Thats a bit rich isn't it? It's not us chained to the smoking habit and sucking down the BS the tobacco companies spread about the manliness of smoking... And as for screaming bloody murder? What? Like the class action law suits taken out by smokers once they found they really were coughing up their lungs?

(Ok I'm smiling when I wrote that, it's a bit of humour OK)

Come on. If it does not work and pubs start going broke left right and centre then the law will be revised OR you can start your own petition to do so!

Paul N

Right! I'm off to muffle the cat, embrace gay men and other PC stuff...

[NC]

Have you ever had the experience of cleaning a urinal - no I guess not. Cigarette butts don't flush anywhere in those!!!

Why would I even go near a urinal? I gave up eating the urinal cakes years ago.

And no, I don't pee on other peoples trees et al. I leave that to the cat's.

Good reason not to use public toilets.

So you go and piss on peoples walls so the street stinks and someone has to come along and clean it, because you wont use a public toilet in fear of an unflushable cigarette butt?

I don't see anything about TREES anywhere in that last post...

[Yamahamaman]

Why would I even go near a urinal?

You have never had to clean them. Think yourself lucky Darlin!!

I gave up eating the urinal cakes years ago.

You never mentioned you were once a student - you must be the first that I have heard of that actually ate them.

I don't see anything about TREES anywhere in that last post...

I think 'et al' covers everything.

[Hitcher]

Hang on a minute... With the greatest possible respect I think you are scewing the argument with emotion to suit your self. Just because you have been allowed to do something for a period of time does not make it right. (ask the guys on Pitcairn island)

Any society will have rules and the rules change from time to time. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon at all but you do need to accept that times have changed and smoking in public areas where other people have no choice but to breath your smoke is no longer acceptable (in the eyes of the law).

Paul ("with the greatest possible respect") I think you are using sophistry to conceal or avoid the underlying issues here.

By the way, I haven't smoked since I left high school, aged 17 (you do the maths).

The Smokefree Environments Act is hypocrisy in a near-pure form. If smoking is so bad for people's heath (and I'm not contesting this for a moment), then the Government should ban the practice entirely. End of story. As a taxpayer I would be more receptive to this than handing over my hard-earned income to the Government to pass (more) dumb laws and to fund endless advertising campaigns trying to convince the unconvinceable to stop the unimaginable.

Even worse is the complicity of the Government in extracting a significant amount of dosh from the tobacco industry to fund "stop smoking" initiatives.

If Governments are sufficiently spineless to ban tobacco products, then they should be brave enough at least to internalise all costs associated with the practice and lay these fairly and orthogonally at the tobacco industry's door.

And the hypocrisy of New Zealanders on this subject is another matter that riles me -- and the inimitable Mr Jackrat. NIMBYism at its finest!

[NC]

You have never had to clean them. Think yourself lucky Darlin!!

Boys wee smells

You never mentioned you were once a student - you must be the first that I have heard of that actually ate them.

Yep, well you never asked. And I do strange things when I'm drunk for $50.

I think 'et al' covers everything.

Meh....

[Hitcher]

And I do strange things when I'm drunk for $50.

Not as strange, I suspect, as the things I do when I'm drunk for $150...

[Yamahamaman]

Boys wee smells
Yep, well you never asked. And I do strange things when I'm drunk for $50.
Meh....

Whatever turns you on the most Darlin' !!!!

[NC]

Not as strange, I suspect, as the things I do when I'm drunk for $150...

*ponders*

Do you have photos?

[NC]

Whatever turns you on the most Darlin' !!!!

I don't get any sexual gratification out of it...

[Hitcher]

Do you have photos?

We could always play "Doctors and Nurses"...

[NC]

We could always play "Doctors and Nurses"...

Ok!!! I'll be the doctor, I choose proctologist

[Paul in NZ]

Paul ("with the greatest possible respect") I think you are using sophistry to conceal or avoid the underlying issues here.

By the way, I haven't smoked since I left high school, aged 17 (you do the maths).

The Smokefree Environments Act is hypocrisy in a near-pure form. If smoking is so bad for people's heath (and I'm not contesting this for a moment), then the Government should ban the practice entirely. End of story. As a taxpayer I would be more receptive to this than handing over my hard-earned income to the Government to pass (more) dumb laws and to fund endless advertising campaigns trying to convince the unconvinceable to stop the unimaginable.

Even worse is the complicity of the Government in extracting a significant amount of dosh from the tobacco industry to fund "stop smoking" initiatives.

If Governments are sufficiently spineless to ban tobacco products, then they should be brave enough at least to internalise all costs associated with the practice and lay these fairly and orthogonally at the tobacco industry's door.

And the hypocrisy of New Zealanders on this subject is another matter that riles me -- and the inimitable Mr Jackrat. NIMBYism at its finest!

Well you certainly raise some good (and un-expected) points.

However, I disagree with you. By following your example all activity the government of the day considers 'dangerous' could be banned. Including the use of motorcycles or (say) skydiving. Since this is clearly not the function of governments in a free society a compromise must be reached. The problem with all compromises is that no one gets everything they want. The balance has swung in the direction of the non smokers, thats all that has happened. Naturally, the smokers don't like it but need to face the fact that over the last 20 years their position has become marginalised!

What this legislation is doing is preventing people making unvoluntary choices for others. If you want to smoke and are prepared to pay the price, you may do so. The price for doing so is rising and please do it in a place with sufficient volume of air not to harm others.

So, in my opinion, it is a reasonable compromise! (as are nearly all laws)

The example used earlier of people pissing on people at tables is a bit silly because you are actively targeting someone with your filth. A better example is to imagine if we were all swimming in a pool. Some dirty bugger takes a dump! You cannot escape and it is a definate health risk! So, quite reasonably doing numbers ones and twos is not allowed in swiming pools! Makes perfect sense (yet morons still do it) and no sensible person would object to it (scatologists excepted). Smoking in an enclosed public space is similar surely?

If you want to pee in the sea, knock yourself out, it's big enough to cope (but I would rather you didn't). But pools have toilet facilities!

The govt could have banned smoking but they did not have the mandate to do so. They reached a liveable compromise. Where is the spohistry in this?

Societies change and so does their tolerance to certain activities. It was not that long ago certain people were still annoyed they were not allowed to take the villiage maidens as their landed rights on their wedding night.

This (so far) is a rights issue. Non smokers have rights too! If you would like to argue health issues, the door is open!

Paul N

[Jamezo]

That wont happen.... look at the tax the gubmint would lose!
lets see.... my rollies cost 27.60 a packet... duty free I can get 5 packets for $50......

don't worry man, you are going to get it all back plus more in the form of life support for your decaying carcass.

[NC]

don't worry man, you are going to get it all back plus more in the form of life support for your decaying carcass.

Well that’s a dearth piece of literary debauchery