Roll on the 10th December Smokefree bars

**Stinger** · 14th November 2004, 21:22

Originally Posted by Jamezo

o0o0o0oh yeah, seems that everybody has workplace horror stories about have to 'run the gauntlet' at the entranceways...

I think the solution is some kind of head-bubble. the smoker just lights up, then places the airtight bag over their head, just imagine it! they could smoke anywhere and nobody would mind!

they could come in all kinds of zany colours, and be biodegradable, and they could make ones with Disney designs on them for kids!

Haha, I thought of a similar idea a while ago.
I've got a rebreather, which for the non-tech people basically scrubs out the C02, and adds a bit more oxygen, so a single oxygen bottle can last you ages. I thought that if the smoker took a big puff and then breathed out into the rebreather then instead of all this silly sharing of their nicotine they could have all of it... a single cigarette would last AGES.., no passive smoking problems.

**Jamezo** · 14th November 2004, 21:29

wouldn't it be cheaper to, ya know, not supply oxygen? the bag on its own ought to do the trick

**Stinger** · 14th November 2004, 21:36

Hypoxia... lot's of fun

And if you don't scrub the air it's even better....,Hypercapnia.... they get the effect where they get intoxicated and paralysed

**Kwaka-Kid** · 14th November 2004, 21:49

Originally Posted by NON-SMOKERS

Blah, Blah... F-ing Blah!

My XR500 smokes, my XR200 smokes, and even my 750E1 smokes... Hope they dont prevent me from bringing them into bars.

Anyways this is a realy amusing thread! 6chris6 your trolling is by far the funniest

**Slipstream** · 15th November 2004, 07:06

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

If you come to our place you are more than welcome to smoke outside and i don't really care what you do with the butts, its a big garden but Vicki and I don't smoke. Fair enough you say, your house your rules...

It's when it gets public that the problems occur. If we were at the pub and you light up, my choice is to suck down your smoke or leave? So in fact you are removing my choice not to smoke?

And thats the key!

the non smokers are being pushed out of public areas by inconsiderate smokers!

hence the law change!

You are correct when you say, your house your rules. But why do you think bars put out ashtrays? Why do you think there are non-smoking signs in certain areas (admitidly they could be placed better). Bars put them up to comply with everyone.
They want everyone to be happy and therefore make more money.
Thats their rules.

My question is, how many Non-smoking bars have you seen?
I've seen a few that go bust after a couple of months. What does that tell you?
1 Non-smokers are all talk when they say they'd go to a bar if it's non-smoking
2 Non-smokers don't actually like drinking in public places
3 There aren't enough non-smoking drinkers to make non-smoking bars realistic
4 Non-smokers have smoking friends and rather than take them to a non- smoking bar, they follow them to a smoking one
5 Bars with smokers are more fun

No one is removing your choice to smoke! You remove it yourself when you stand next to someone who smokes!

I'm an on-off smoker, so I guess that makes me a smoker in reality. But I know that if a non-smoking friend of mine is sitting on a bench, when I go to sit down next to them I don't light up without asking, or at all, cos effectively that their space. However, if they came up to sit next to me and I was smoking, and they asked me to put it out cos they didn't want to passive smoke, I'd tell them politely, to move on.

Ok airplanes, buses, trains, McDonalds, other restaurants, most office spaces and some retail outfits, all used to let you smoke there. I agree with them and it has made working a lot easier, but leave us some public place to smoke.
You say that smokers are being inconsiderate, what have non-smokers done to _be_ considerate?

Some lady in government wants her name to be remembered (which is why I wont use it) and has picked the one thing that will make the most noise (apart from an alcohol ban) and gone with it.

That's why the law is changing.

But like I said, I'm an on-off smoker and it won't bother me directly what the bars do. But it will bother me when my real smoking friends get affected.
If we choose to kill ourselves with smoking a little quicker, that's our choice.
It's non-smokers choice wether to stand next to us when we smoke or not.

I still think the best thing would be to put in filtered extractor fans. The smoke would be contained, extracted, filtered and thrown away...fresher air for everybody.

**Paul in NZ** · 15th November 2004, 07:47

Originally Posted by Slipstream

My question is, how many Non-smoking bars have you seen?
I've seen a few that go bust after a couple of months. What does that tell you?
1 Non-smokers are all talk when they say they'd go to a bar if it's non-smoking
2 Non-smokers don't actually like drinking in public places
3 There aren't enough non-smoking drinkers to make non-smoking bars realistic
4 Non-smokers have smoking friends and rather than take them to a non- smoking bar, they follow them to a smoking one
5 Bars with smokers are more fun

No one is removing your choice to smoke! You remove it yourself when you stand next to someone who smokes!

New bars go broke all the time. The success rate of a new bar (or most new business) is minimal. Even existing bars go broke because the punters are a fickle lot and shift loyalty rapidly. A new smokefree bar going bust proves bugger all.

1 yet to be proved. (see below)
2 possibly because of the smokers? it will take time to see if this behaviour changes.
3 dunno about that (see below)
4 in your case that might be true but not for everyone.
5 (sigh) not for non smokers

Which is precisely why most non smokers don't go to bars which leads me to think this is rapidly becoming a circular argument.

A recent study found that 76 percent of California bargoers are bothered
by secondhand smoke. That same study found that 64 percent of
Californians go to bars, and 75 percent of those bar patrons don't smoke.

In reality, there is currently a global trend towards non smoking in bars and public places so it's not just one mad woman in government. Despite this, I have not noticed the world stopping to turn or beer companies going bust? Bars will find a way to satisfy everyone and in fact, had they gone the extra mile and installed decent extraction units when they were required to set up the non smoking areas instead of the lip service usually paid, this legislation would not have been required!

The legislation requires bar owners to take all reasonable steps but smokers are allowed to smoke in the open. Since "The Open" is not defined in the legisation one suspects a cetain amount of leeway will be accorded! A semi enclosed balcony for example! (maybe you could open a bar called "The Open" and make a mint?)

Whether you or I has the right of it or not, the fact (and the only fact probably in this whole thread) remains that a new law is going to come into force. You still live in a free country and you have the right to protest and the ability to change the law through democratic process provided you can gather sufficient support.

Thats probably a better place for your side of this argument now? On the 12th you could doubtless find a lot of bankrupt bar owners willing to stage a march on the beehive comple with pitchforks and burning torches (oh hang on, that's probably not allowed under the smoke free laws)

Oh well... Back to work!

**bluninja** · 15th November 2004, 08:25

Well the trend is spreading. The Scottish parliament has voted to stop smoking in enclosed public places (including bars) and that comes into force in about 18 months. So I guess we will see a further depopulation of Scotland whilst they pour south to be able to smoke in bars

To me the bottom line is that bars and pubs have not done enough (costs them money with no return) to provide choice and now they are reaping what they've sown.

I guess as society gets more litigeous the government (of any country) are looking ahead to make sure they don't get sued in the future for not doing enough to protect people from second hand smoke.

**Drunken Monkey** · 15th November 2004, 08:29

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

...
In reality, there is currently a global trend towards non smoking in bars ...

No, to call the trend 'global' is completely false. It is only a trend in the UK, USA/Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and possibly any of their related territories). 'Mainland' Europeans continue to smoke in public places and advertise smoking. They do not maintain the same attitudes to smoking as 'we' do.
Smoking is not discouraged all over Asia, in fact in Japan it is still promoted as the Japanese government has large financial interest in their local tobacco industry.
Tobacco smoking is still increasing across Africa.
Smoking is also popular in the Middle East, although this article:http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=11741
suggests at least one country is attempting to reverse the trend.
Don't presume that something that is prevalent in our culture's media and near neighbours media that it is global trend.

Need data?
http://smokingsides.com/docs/stat.html
knock yourselves out

**bluninja** · 15th November 2004, 08:51

Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey

No, to call the trend 'global' is completely false. It is only a trend in the UK, USA/Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and possibly any of their related territories). 'Mainland' Europeans continue to smoke in public places and advertise smoking. They do not maintain the same attitudes to smoking as 'we' do.

Try and watch the motoGP and Superbike from 'mainland' Europe and spot the tobacco sponsorship on the bikes ? Can't? Oh yes...there's central europe.

Global trend....are we talking by population? Economies? Perhaps I should have said there is a global trend in most developed countries. Citing one country does not mean it's not a trend.

Had a look at the links.....stats for outside the US at least 10 years old. One thing I do think it shows is that in developing economies where they can market to their hearts content they have increased the number of smokers (and sales). So I guess there is absolutely no link between advertising and people smoking (or starting to smoke). Whoops going off topic.

**Deano** · 15th November 2004, 09:14

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

I am SO looking forward to going out without having to ingest copious carcinogenic fumes at the same time.

Hey Dave, what about all the carcinogens you breathe in (exhaust fumes)while chasing other bikes around the race track ?

Or are you always out in front....

**F5 Dave** · 15th November 2004, 09:14

Wow this really has taken the KB members to task on both sides. 8 pages in 3 days isn’t bad.

Come on my precious, grow, grow.

**F5 Dave** · 15th November 2004, 09:17

Originally Posted by Deano

Hey Dave, what about all the carcinogens you breathe in (exhaust fumes)while chasing other bikes around the race track ?

Or are you always out in front....

modesty prevents me [cough]

um interesting, guess they are well diluted. I did follow someone running some naughty fuel & man did it stink. Apparently the real funny stuff makes your eyes water if you are real close.

**Paul in NZ** · 15th November 2004, 09:19

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Wow this really has taken the KB members to task on both sides. 8 pages in 3 days isn’t bad.

Come on my precious, grow, grow.

Yes! Well done that man!

**Deano** · 15th November 2004, 09:24

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

modesty prevents me [cough]

um interesting, guess they are well diluted. I did follow someone running some naughty fuel & man did it stink. Apparently the real funny stuff makes your eyes water if you are real close.

Is that some sort of moonshine concoction ? It made the General Lee go well.

I used to love the smell of some 2 stoke oils when being burnt at a great rate.