Why don't folks wear gloves when they're riding?

[swbarnett]

Well I dunno, because their personal choice affects everyone else sometimes too. If a biker crashed into me and died because they had no gear it would wreck MY life as well as theirs and all their family's. Pretty selfish choice to wear no gear... Would you say that suicide is personal choice or would you impose your views to not kill themselves?

Actually, I'm a supporter of suicide. Your life, your choice whether or not to end it.

The issue here is one of personal choice. If I choose to climb a mountain and get into trouble it's not my choice if a rescuer comes to get me, it's theirs.

Similarly, someone may choose not to wear the gear. That's their choice. If they come off and suffer horrendous injuries it's MY choice, not theirs, to pay for the recovery. I don't blame them because I choose to pick up the pieces, I rejoice in the fact that I live in a society where we still have the right to make our own decisions (to a large degree).

[Ragingrob]

Actually, I'm a supporter of suicide. Your life, your choice whether or not to end it.

The issue here is one of personal choice. If I choose to climb a mountain and get into trouble it's not my choice if a rescuer comes to get me, it's theirs.

Similarly, someone may choose not to wear the gear. That's their choice. If they come off and suffer horrendous injuries it's MY choice, not theirs, to pay for the recovery. I don't blame them because I choose to pick up the pieces, I rejoice in the fact that I live in a society where we still have the right to make our own decisions (to a large degree).

Really? Ok then. Well I'm sure in most courts if I crashed into you and you died because of being severed in half due to wearing a singlet than I'd still be demanded to pay out to your family and society... So that doesn't really work out, although I could gladly show them your last post and all will be well because it was your choice!

In terms of getting in trouble on a mountain, you KNOW that rescuers will try and save you, even by putting their life at risk. If you live your life thinking that your choices only affect you when in your mind you really know that others' emotions and even lives will also be at stake, then I don't have too much to say...

I'd fully support suicide and the such if it's someone who has absolutely NO family and NO friends and NOONE knows they're alive to start with... But other than that it becomes pretty selfish.

Overall these are just endless opinions anyway, I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to give my opinion that ATGATT is important.

[Finn]

Well I'm sure in most courts if I crashed into you and you died because of being severed in half due to wearing a singlet than I'd be demanded to pay out to your family and society...

I hate being severed, especially in half.

[SPman]

It's all good fun until someone loses a war. Then you're hanging upside down from a lamppost.

But your mistress gets to have the same thing as well - or is that just collateral damage?

[swbarnett]

Really? Ok then. Well I'm sure in most courts if I crashed into you and you died because of being severed in half due to wearing a singlet than I'd still be demanded to pay out to your family and society...

If you caused the accident in the first place then the major contributing factor to the death was not the lack of gear but your actions. Yes, if gear would've helped I would have to share the blame for my death but then so would you.

In terms of getting in trouble on a mountain, you KNOW that rescuers will try and save you, even by putting their life at risk.

Yes, but the choice is still theirs. Even if it is made in advance and I'm aware of it. It does happen that the weather is too bad to fly so the rescuers don't come. That's their choice too. I wouldn't hold it against them.

If you live your life thinking that your choices only affect you when in your mind you really know that others' emotions and even lives will also be at stake, then I don't have too much to say...

I fully accept that my actions affect others but you can't live your life considering others to the exclusion of yourself. I know that those others in my life closest to me want me to be happy and to make my own decisions.

I'd fully support suicide and the such if it's someone who has absolutely NO family and NO friends and NOONE knows they're alive to start with... But other than that it becomes pretty selfish.

It's pretty selfish on the part of the friends and family you mention to want someone to live just because of the impact their death would have on you.

I just wanted to give my opinion that ATGATT is important.

On this point I'd have to agree. My contention is just that you can't force others to think the same and you can't blame non gear wearers for your ACC bill and personal psychological suffering.

[Ragingrob]

Point taken

I just don't get the whole suicide thing, like why you'd kill yourself if even just one person cares for you lots!

Anyway, that's probably on the list of stupid topics to not talk about along with religion... sooo It's been good hearing thought out arguments!

[motorbyclist]

You're just whining about someone expressing their freedom differently to you.

actually, i never whined about anything

and no-one said you have to listen

gotta wonder why one would go into these ATGATT threads when to complain about their right not to have other bikers not express their concern about them.

it's like the guys who went into the stunting area of this forum not long ago and had a go at the guys who posted up a video of themselves doing stunts


though it does make things a bit more interesting, i really cbf dealing with it, so i'll unsubscribe rather than trying to convince you i never tried to force anyone/you to wear some gear. freedom of speech and freedom to ignore speech. simple.

[BAD DAD]

Generally I agree and in fact do ride with all of my gear all of the time ( which aint quite the same as "ATGATT" but JUST occasionally I might decide to exercise a micoscopic bit of personal freedom and do otherwise. Worse still, on the odd occasion I might even risk my life and have sex; without a condom. Everyone knows that it is far safer to travel by jumbo jet but NO, I will insist on going by car if it's not too far and during periods of total selfish unreasonable madness I might even go by motorcycle. I did once swim outside the flags and I have used my skillsaw without earmuffs. Another time I drove a car without displaying a WOF, didn't wear a hat and sunscreen, ate four cheeseburgers instead of 5 fruits, chased after a suspected burgler instead of calling the cops, had kids born at home instead of a lovely safe clean hospital.. I think the point is that against all reasonable and well meaning advise I decided to take fate into my own hands, came to no harm and hopefully will live to occssionally break lots more rules and bylaws and disregard well meant advise even though usually I would agree with it. No harm meant and no harm done ( except to myself )

[madmal64]

Generally I agree and in fact do ride with all of my gear all of the time ( which aint quite the same as "ATGATT" but JUST occasionally I might decide to exercise a micoscopic bit of personal freedom and do otherwise. Worse still, on the odd occasion I might even risk my life and have sex; without a condom. Everyone knows that it is far safer to travel by jumbo jet but NO, I will insist on going by car if it's not too far and during periods of total selfish unreasonable madness I might even go by motorcycle. I did once swim outside the flags and I have used my skillsaw without earmuffs. Another time I drove a car without displaying a WOF, didn't wear a hat and sunscreen, ate four cheeseburgers instead of 5 fruits, chased after a suspected burgler instead of calling the cops, had kids born at home instead of a lovely safe clean hospital.. I think the point is that against all reasonable and well meaning advise I decided to take fate into my own hands, came to no harm and hopefully will live to occssionally break lots more rules and bylaws and disregard well meant advise even though usually I would agree with it. No harm meant and no harm done ( except to myself )

Hmm you sound like a real rebel! Ive done all of those and I have even eaten a steak off a bbq with checking to see if it was cooked all the way through.
Keep up with the civil disorder there, I with ya man!