Sideslipping a Pitts?

[marty]

Can't believe i missed this thread! I'm in the middleof P of F for my C-Cat at the moment - haven't got time to get into anything at the moment, but 1: sideslipping the Pitts S2 is one way of coming in on a straight in approach, 2: sideslipping a Cessna is safe and easy, and not 'dodgy' as is said, and 3: the Pitts actually has one aerofoil, and one symmetrical wing........

[Edbear]

Gidday Marty! Wondered where you were! I see there's a Pitts for sale...

[Grub]

2: sideslipping a Cessna is safe and easy, and not 'dodgy' as is said.......

One of the C172's I flew (K model I think?), the Manual prohibits sideslips. Our trainers (Canty Aero Club) explained this as being because the high wing in certain side-slip conditions will blanket the rudder and elevators.

[JKWNZ]

I presume the limit in the Cessna for side slipping is to reduce the risk of inducing a spin... even if they are relatively benign in a C172 it makes the manufacturer happier to know their liability is reduced!

[ManDownUnder]

Are Pitts 2 seaters??? I'd give my left tit to go up in one...

[Pussy]

Are Pitts 2 seaters??? I'd give my left tit to go up in one...

The S2 is....

[ManDownUnder]

The S2 is....

... lefties chances of survival just dropped...

[Pussy]

I presume the limit in the Cessna for side slipping is to reduce the risk of inducing a spin... even if they are relatively benign in a C172 it makes the manufacturer happier to know their liability is reduced!

I flew approx 1400 hours in C180/185 several years ago. In a crosswind landing situation in this type I ALWAYS sideslipped on the last part of the landing approach (in to wind wing down, opposite rudder), so on touchdown the aircraft is going straight in relation to the airstrip. There may well be a few guns out there who are prepared to kick a tailwheel Cessna straight at the last moment, but I'm not one of them. I believe the figure of nose off straight is something like 15 degrees, after that you may as well cross your arms and ride out the groundloop that is going to happen

[SPman]

Piper Cubs are great fun to sideslip in - well - you have to - no flaps!
PA18-90's, anyway.

[Grub]

In a crosswind landing situation in this type I ALWAYS sideslipped on the last part of the landing approach (in to wind wing down, opposite rudder), so on touchdown the aircraft is going straight in relation to the airstrip.

Yup, agreed, used to be the same technique with the F27 Fokker Friendship. At some of the regional airports they got seriously out of shape looking. Of course the 737's can't do that, they have to land with crab ... or take an engine off

Probably the hardest manouvre for me is the .... crab to flare, kick straight, drop wing into wind, land ... all at the same time. Like patting your head and rubbing your stomach while doing a loop on a unicycle.

[Pussy]

Probably the hardest manouvre for me is the .... crab to flare, kick straight, drop wing into wind, land ... all at the same time. Like patting your head and rubbing your stomach while doing a loop on a unicycle.

That's what you do in a Fletcher, except dropping the wing. The Fletcher only has a rudder on it because it is a legal requirement... they're not very effective. You can, however, with a bit of manipulating and timing, kick them straight IMMEDIATELY prior to touchdown

[marty]

all 172's will sideslip fine - with full flap it is easy to run out of elevator and rudder authority, but you'd have to be pretty aggressive, slow and not paying attention for it to happen. problem is, some people don't like bank angle, and they try to drive the plane in the circuit with rudder, which can cause issues at 500' when turning finals.......inadvertantly slipping, until they effectively drop a wing, taking all that 500' (and more) to recover (or not). i sideslip the 206 all the time, but it's an older model and has small rudder/elevator, so i don't do it too close to the ground, and keep my speed up as well. it will descend at 1500fpm in a sideslip, at 2200/17", or 1100fpm in straight and level.

the pitts will quite happily descend (essentially wings level) at 2000fpm in a big sideslip. on finals, if you can't see the runway, then you're in trouble, so you either fly in like this /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/============, sideslip in, or fly a 'spitfire' approach - kind of like a glide approach flying a curving/descending base/finals from abeam the upwind threshold.

[Swoop]

...but it's an older model...

Is there any such thing as a "newer" model?
I certainly haven't seen one in our "line of business"... They all appear to be '60's vintage.

[Edbear]

...so you either fly in like this /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/============, sideslip in, or fly a 'spitfire' approach - kind of like a glide approach flying a curving/descending base/finals from abeam the upwind threshold.

Doh! Run that by me again...?

[Jantar]

The C172 is not permitted to side slip with flap applied. That doesn't mean they won't do it though, just that the manufacturer doesn't approve. It is a perfectly acceptable manouver to reduce height should the flaps fail, and its also a good way to center a thermal with engine back to idle.