Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 84

Thread: Feminism - what is it?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    17th April 2004 - 20:45
    Bike
    An old slow red one!!
    Location
    Wgtn but a Cantab heart
    Posts
    1,258

    Feminism - what is it?

    Reading through a number of posts in the ‘Biker Angels’ Forum of late has raised a number of (surprisingly) strong reactions in me with regards to differing peoples opinions and reactions to the (IMHO) misuse / misinterpretation of the term ‘feminism’ and that in turn has left me pondering if we REALLY understand what is, or (and more importantly), what it means if anything, to us as women.

    So - What is ‘feminism’ to you?

    A doctrine that advocates equal rights for all women (regardless of age, ethnicity etc)?

    An outdated concept / theory that was started in the 19th century and has no validity in this day and age?

    A social movement that attempts to address, analyse and interpret issues of particular importance for women (e.g. domestic violence, pay equity, globalisation)?

    A movement started by power crazy ‘hairy lesbians’ for the purpose of mocking and putting down all men on this earth?

    Something else entirely?

    Just to set you thinking a wee bit (and hopefully to slow down the initial reactions!) I have done a wee bit of looking around on the interwebby thingy and found the following quotes that may be of interest (note they are selective quotes for the purpose of generating debate - to get the full context just follow the links).

    "Modern feminist theory has been criticized as being predominantly, but not exclusively, associated with Western middle-class academia. Feminist activism, however, is a grass-roots movement that seeks to cross boundaries based on social class, race, culture, and religion. It is culturally specific and addresses issues relevant to the women of that society: for example female circumcision in Sudan, or the glass ceiling in developed economies. Some issues, such as rape, incest, and mothering, are universal. "http://www.womensstudies.eku.edu/what/

    "……as long as Women's History and African American History are independent curricula, history itself will still be a white man's story. In that same way, the women's rights movement will have been successful when we no longer have to advocate separately for half the population's human rights. On the other hand, ideally women's egos would be more invested in their work. You can't continue change if you don't know the process necessary to make it. If feminists first exposed domestic violence as a reality in many women's lives, funded the first women's shelters, and drafted and fought for legislation that is now working to end violence against women, then an "advocate to end violence against women" (Sam Allison's term for herself) is just another word for "feminist." Issues divorced from their feminist roots eventually become depoliticized, and the resulting social programs are reduced to treating the symptoms rather than curing-or preventing-the disease. In order to have a robust movement, domestic violence and economic development need to be re-identified as feminist issues and victories. " http://www.feminist.com/resources/ar.../whatisfem.htm

    "In Manhood Redux, C.H. Freedman writes of the "ultimate discrimination" in his chapter entitled "Arlington Cemetery: The Ultimate Male- Chauvinist Preserve." There, he relates men's horror stories of war, comparing them to women's "horror stories" of sexism. Essentially a comparison of male grief to female anger, he demonstrates well how much more value our society assigns to female anger.

    For the indignity of being called "little girl," he notes, many courts "are wont to assume" it's "worth perhaps $50,000 in compensation." (Manhood Redux, C.H. Freedman, p 135) But how much, he asks, was it worth for frightened young draftees in Vietnam to be told they were going to be used as bait?

    How much is it worth to be told your life is worth less than a can of worms or a dozen frozen bait herring? How much, to hear members of the opposite sex tell you your healthy sexual desires are bad because you're a heterosexual male? How much, to suffer hundreds of rejections by members of the opposite sex?

    During the past 25 years, these have contributed to the grief men commonly feel: rejection, denigration, callous dismissal. How much are they worth?

    Few women want to hear about this because then they'd have to confront that, contrary to the popular pop-feminist message that men deserve to be treated like inhuman, rapacious beasts, we bleed, we hurt, often women make us cry, and we die.
    " http://www.jtest28.com/Grief.html

    ".....Of course the irony is that in all their rushing toward "female empowerment" (hmm...) they basically *dumped* what made them feminine, and glorified masculinity even more by imitating it. It seems to me like now women have claimed that for themselves, and now men are in some weird in-between - not allowed to act like "traditional men," and also (STILL) not really allowed to have feminine characteristics. It's like everybody's trying to be everything, sort of. Meanwhile, everyone is promiscuous, half the kids out there are accidents, and there are no families anymore because everybody's too busy having fun to raise kids properly.

    I really don't know what the gender roles are anymore (Does anyone?) but I know that women have really put themselves into a bind. Now they have to be providers *and* beautiful sex objects, but they may still be considered "sluts," and modesty and virginity are no longer options, because that makes them "prudes." I don't know what the male situation is, but I'd suspect it is similarly confused."
    http://www.jtest28.com/Interesting_post.html

    And finally

    "Feminism - I myself have never known what feminism is. I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat." -Rebecca West, 1913

    and / or

    Follow me on Facebook


    A husband is someone who, after taking the trash out, gives the impression that he just cleaned the whole house.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    31st March 2003 - 13:09
    Bike
    CBR1000RR
    Location
    Koomeeeooo
    Posts
    5,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Feminism should be a doctrine recognising and enabling the equal value and position of women as individuals and in society at large. It should recognise and take into account the inherant differences between the genders with a view to enabling women to be all they can be, and all they want to be, should they chose to do so.

    In that regard it is about equality.

    It should not be a device used to enable women at the expense of men. Rather than pushing men down to gain relative advantage, it should recognise the value of men, and seek to gain those same advantages.

    Where a patriarchy has rules or procedures in place that limit or inhibit women's ability to gain equal footing then those rules/practices should be challenged.

    Natural gender differences need to be accounted for. If a woman wants the right to use a mens stand up urinal then I think we need to take a look not at the request - but why it's being made. If it's in the interests of woman gaining equal footing and opportunity then fine. If it's simply showboating and making a point because it's there to be made then it's stupid.

    It's about enablement, empowering and uplifting women as a gender. Not about repressing, limiting or costing men as a gender. Each side should be look at the other with a view to helping.

    Too often this whole topic becomes a "How can I best get them back for the years of mistreatment" issue which is total BS. Accept things for how they are as of right now, address any shortcomings - and move forward.
    $2,000 cash if you find a buyer for my house, kumeuhouseforsale@straightshooters.co.nz for details

  3. #3
    Join Date
    21st February 2007 - 09:55
    Bike
    Anything I can straddle
    Location
    At the bottom of a glass
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by Her_B4 View Post
    .
    .


    So - What is ‘feminism’ to you?

    A doctrine that advocates equal rights for all women (regardless of age, ethnicity etc)?

    ....
    .....
    .... power crazy ‘hairy lesbians’ for the purpose of mocking and putting down all men on this earth?

    Something else entirely?

    ....
    So how do I answer this as an elderly male with his formative years back in the late 50's.

    Very carefully is probably the best way.

    Personally I see feminism as the it originated as the statement I changed into red text. Something i have wholeheartily agreed with most of my adult life.

    The blue text is the impression of where , in my perception , feminism has seemed to be going in the last decade

    The green text is where I would like it to go in the future.

    Not the most enlightening answer but one hopefully that wont get my head chewed off by those members of the blue yext brigade.
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    15th May 2007 - 11:26
    Bike
    Triumph Speed Four
    Location
    SouthDorker
    Posts
    2,343
    I really don't know what the gender roles are anymore (Does anyone?) but I know that women have really put themselves into a bind. Now they have to be providers *and* beautiful sex objects, but they may still be considered "sluts," and modesty and virginity are no longer options, because that makes them "prudes." I don't know what the male situation is, but I'd suspect it is similarly confused."[/I] http://www.jtest28.com/Interesting_post.html
    And finally

    "Feminism - I myself have never known what feminism is. I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat." -Rebecca West, 1913
    Firstly, very nice thread Her_B4...I hope I get to be able to bling you for it soon

    I like these two portions of text best, as they represent my view point the best on this topic.

    To me, the feminist movement is about helping women emancipate themselves from truly appalling, life threatening or truly unfair life situations.

    It is NOT about whether men should be emasculated and rendered shadows of themselves to satisfy the unrealistic demands of females driven to extremes by past bad experiences with poor partners choices and experiences.

    The balance is a difficult one to obtain, but it is not impossible. However, it requires a certain amount of intelligence which quite often is not present amongst a lot of individuals, irrespective of gender, nationality or even economic status.

    You do not need to be a certain colour, have money or believe in a certain religion to respect and love each other, and I believe that extremists have definitely injured our society for both genders.

    Bring back John Wayne and Clark Gable, I say!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Time to cut out the "holier/more enlightened than thou" bullshit and the "slut" comments and let people live honestly how they like providing they're not harming themselves or others in the process.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    3rd July 2003 - 12:00
    Bike
    Scorpio, XL1200N
    Location
    forests of azure
    Posts
    9,398
    Women with opinions are cute.

    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  6. #6
    Join Date
    31st March 2003 - 13:09
    Bike
    CBR1000RR
    Location
    Koomeeeooo
    Posts
    5,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
    Women with opinions are cute.

    If you mean women with brains and well formed opinions then we are are of similar mind grasshopper...
    $2,000 cash if you find a buyer for my house, kumeuhouseforsale@straightshooters.co.nz for details

  7. #7
    Join Date
    5th December 2006 - 18:22
    Bike
    2000 Honda CBR600F4, RG50/GL145 Bucket
    Location
    Whitby, Wellington
    Posts
    2,009
    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder View Post
    Feminism should be a doctrine recognising and ....
    Nominated for KB's Post of the Year!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    3rd July 2003 - 12:00
    Bike
    Scorpio, XL1200N
    Location
    forests of azure
    Posts
    9,398
    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder View Post
    If you mean women with brains and well formed opinions...
    Well, sure. Just so long as they're short enough to pat on the head when necessary. Positive reinforcement is an important part of training.

    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  9. #9
    Join Date
    21st February 2007 - 09:55
    Bike
    Anything I can straddle
    Location
    At the bottom of a glass
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
    ..... Positive reinforcement is an important part of training.

    They can be trained?
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    15th May 2007 - 11:26
    Bike
    Triumph Speed Four
    Location
    SouthDorker
    Posts
    2,343
    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
    Well, sure. Just so long as they're short enough to pat on the head when necessary. Positive reinforcement is an important part of training.



    Funny that...it's what I remind myself to do every time I see you...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Time to cut out the "holier/more enlightened than thou" bullshit and the "slut" comments and let people live honestly how they like providing they're not harming themselves or others in the process.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom View Post
    Women with opinions are cute.

    shit then I must be damn cute, because I am accused of being an opinionated bitch often!

    I have a few thoughts on this... might take the time to write them down later.

    However I find it sad when a woman is proud and strong in her ways and feels there should be no "separation" in people no matter what their gender the next thing she is accused of being a feminist.

    Im not a feminist.

    I belive in equality no matter what gender/religion/physicality/what the fuck ever other compartment you want to put someone in...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    11th December 2004 - 20:46
    Bike
    2018 Ducati Monster 797
    Location
    In a boot
    Posts
    5,250
    Blog Entries
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder View Post
    Feminism should be a doctrine recognising and enabling the equal value and position of women as individuals and in society at large. It should recognise and take into account the inherant differences between the genders with a view to enabling women to be all they can be, and all they want to be, should they chose to do so.

    In that regard it is about equality.

    It should not be a device used to enable women at the expense of men. Rather than pushing men down to gain relative advantage, it should recognise the value of men, and seek to gain those same advantages.

    Where a patriarchy has rules or procedures in place that limit or inhibit women's ability to gain equal footing then those rules/practices should be challenged.

    Natural gender differences need to be accounted for. If a woman wants the right to use a mens stand up urinal then I think we need to take a look not at the request - but why it's being made. If it's in the interests of woman gaining equal footing and opportunity then fine. If it's simply showboating and making a point because it's there to be made then it's stupid.

    It's about enablement, empowering and uplifting women as a gender. Not about repressing, limiting or costing men as a gender. Each side should be look at the other with a view to helping.

    Too often this whole topic becomes a "How can I best get them back for the years of mistreatment" issue which is total BS. Accept things for how they are as of right now, address any shortcomings - and move forward.
    Well I was going to woffle on, but I really don't need to, you sir said everything that I was going to type, thanks for saving me the effort, I have dishes to wash (kidding), I love you and want to have your babies (again kidding).
    To me, simply put, feminisim is about equality in all aspects of life, equal rights, and equal choices, not just for women but for men also, it's no longer a 'the women against the men' thing, but about equality and respect for all.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    3rd July 2003 - 12:00
    Bike
    Scorpio, XL1200N
    Location
    forests of azure
    Posts
    9,398
    Quote Originally Posted by 007XX View Post
    Funny that...it's what I remind myself to do every time I see you...
    Keen on a bit of layup practice, eh?

    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  14. #14
    Join Date
    31st December 2007 - 13:57
    Bike
    None
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    312
    Just to throw another iron in the fire - I think traditional, mainstream feminism is too narrowly focused and neither acknowledges nor addresses the connections between subjugation of women, minorities, and the environment. Ecofeminism, however, does - it is a fascinating branch of feminist theory.

    The short and curly of it is that way back in the dark ages, during the origins of Judeo-Christian theology, "man" was seen as separate to (and dominant over) nature and the feminine - the idea being that God gave "man" dominion over the earth (interesting, aye, that the human race has been known as "man").

    As western civilisation (UK, USA) is essentially borne of historically Christian nations, and men have traditionally been the heads of the family and the owners of land (and therefore managers of it) our environmental performance has been decidedly lacklustre. Resources have been seen as just there for the taking - the "raping of the earth" the "taming of nature" etc - and nature has been viewed as somehow outside and disconnected from culture, enabling humans to just dispose of their waste willy-nilly (out of sight, out of mind). Similarly, women have been seen as aligned more with nature (mother nature, mother earth, earth mother, wild women etc) and less with culture and men.

    Our history has been written by men, our religion dominated by men, and our civilisation run by men. I prefer to think of it less as a dark evil conspiracy than as a product of a lack of questioning in the past. Now we are all starting to question things, and that can only be a good thing. As the mother of three boys I do worry that the pendulum sometimes swings too far, especially in education, but in general I'm happy that women and girls are now given the opportunities they are. We should never think things are as simple as they seem though - the origins of our thought processes are fascinating!

    It's not just about women wanting to work and be paid fairly - it's about righting the wrongs of millenia, and changing the way we view the world - and that takes time. Like making cheese and seeing the results of Pantene .......
    Last edited by BIHB@0610; 10th January 2008 at 11:08. Reason: putting in some paragraph breaks as suggested by jrandom!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    3rd July 2003 - 12:00
    Bike
    Scorpio, XL1200N
    Location
    forests of azure
    Posts
    9,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Planna View Post
    *furious typing noises*
    Top tip: try a paragraph break here and there.

    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •