Grafitti "artists" pay the ultimate price in Sydney

[Mint Sauce]

Bit harsh don't you think?!

No! From your short visit are you aware of the 'burn out' meetings, and the associated behaviour, damage and danger these buggers present in new Zealand?

The biggest threat to the planet is over population so why get het up about the idiots who self detruct?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Because I know what urban caving is about and how it differs to vandalism tagging. Most of them simply use chalk in drier areas, the use of spray paint is more likely for the practicality of it rather than to piss people off.

I agree, I think town graffiti is mostly ugly and degrades the buildings they go for but this is not the same.



I don't think you're on the same wavelength with me here. I can't blame you really, the article has misrepresented the people involved quite considerably.

I'm not talking about taggers, I'm talking about urban cavers/explorers. There is a very clear and obvious difference.

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places. The article put unfair emphasis on the tagging as opposed to what they were really there for. They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

Uh, these munters were hardly "urban explorers" as far as I saw. The surviving munter was so pissed he couldnt tell the pleece if there were others there and if so how many.

Getting pissed up in an urban storm drain is not my idea of "Exploration", hardly in the Hillary spirit is it?

[Maffoo]

theres a big difference between 'bombing' which is a mural done with spray cans as is seen round auckland in some places (like the sir ed picture) & 'tagging'... which is just writing a made-up name on a wall/fence/building

tagging is no different to a dog pissing on a lamppost to tell the other dogs he has been there

[Mint Sauce]

Perfect; if the anlagoy of taggers is to stray dogs then let us have crews to catch them, a pound to put them in and the ability to put them down if not claimed within 30 days.

[sunhuntin]

Perfect; if the anlagoy of taggers is to stray dogs then let us have crews to catch them, a pound to put them in and the ability to put them down if not claimed within 30 days.

dreams are wonderful. can we do the same with boy racers?

[Hitcher]

They weren't "graffiti artists". They were fucking taggers. Big difference.

[jrandom]

They were fucking taggers.

Heaven forbid; one suspects that such behaviour could result in the pitter-patter of little tagger feet.

[Big Dave]

What are the Court penalties for tagging?

[Al]

Hey Dave, your "is gay" (in pink) on the previous tagging on your white wall was very good!
I agree, same as stray dogs pissing and marking.... Impound them and if not claimed, euthanase them!

Take care out there

Al

[Big Dave]

Hey Dave, your "is gay" (in pink) on the previous tagging on your white wall was very good!
I agree, same as stray dogs pissing and marking.... Impound them and if not claimed, euthanase them!

Take care out there

Al

I have a dispenser of rattle can black for painting my muffler too.

But all it would do is make the bloke from the council's job cleaning it off harder.



Hi David,



Graffiti is on the increase in Auckland City, particularly in residential areas. Left alone, it may fast become an epidemic in your neighbourhood. You don't need to put up with it, so thank you for bringing this to our attention.

I have requested that our graffiti contractors attend to remove graffiti from big dave's cave. The removal should take place within 48 working hours, weather permitting. Should you wish to follow this up at any stage, the reference numbers for this request is #####

I hope this helps. Feel free to contact us via our website (www.aucklandcity.govt.nz) or speak with one of us via phone on (09) 379 2020 for any assistance with matters pertaining to Auckland City Council

Kind regards,

Contact Centre Customer Service Representative
Auckland City Council

[MGST]

I feel I must question your tolerance levels. Why are you so riled about someone spray painting something you're never going to see or be affected by? In fact ninety nine percent of the population will never see it. The only reason you know about it is because of that article.

While I won't see that particular one, I am in the same boat as Dave. The fuckwits are always tagging my front fence, and the power transformer on the adjacent section. As soon as the graffiti (sp) guard people paint over it, they come back and tag it again. So it is nice to see some karma.

I know it's difficult for you to see outside your comfort zone but urban caving is actually quite fun.

3 mid-20's youths, smashed off their faces, no mention of caving equipment / ropes etc - this was no legitmate afternoon outing. I quite believe you that genuine urban caving is fun and adventurous, but this wasn't the case here.

Please clarify just why you think they deserve to die for that.

They were in a prohibited area, tagging, drunk, plus who knows what else we weren't told. As I said before, criminals, and on several accounts. The world is a better place without them.

[Mekk]

Also, operating in hard to access places as you mentioned, obviously has it's risks as appears to have happened in this instance. Was it worth risking their lives for? I think not.

I think to them it would have been worth risking their lives for in the same manner that bikers choose to risk their lives on the road.

Anyone else see the irony in these comments?

Oh, and at 22-27, they were not kids....

If you're referring to the very public reporting of their deaths, then yeah.

Regardless, I don't feel urban cavers deserve the death penalty for pursuing a hobby that affects next to no one.

I also don't think that they deserve to be lumped into the same category as taggers when the entire motive for what they do has nothing to do with that.

It's interesting to note the hypocrisy of some people here. A fair portion of this site is concerned about motorcyclists all being labeled as trouble-makers and whatnot while nobody here holds back on doing the same for other hobbies.

Whether they were kids or not isn't really relevant to my point but I stand corrected.

[Mekk]

Uh, these munters were hardly "urban explorers" as far as I saw. The surviving munter was so pissed he couldnt tell the pleece if there were others there and if so how many.

Getting pissed up in an urban storm drain is not my idea of "Exploration", hardly in the Hillary spirit is it?

Aside from the alcohol factor of which I agree was not their brightest moment, I would contest that it is very much in the Hillary spirit for all other aspects of such adventures.

While I won't see that particular one, I am in the same boat as Dave. The fuckwits are always tagging my front fence, and the power transformer on the adjacent section. As soon as the graffiti (sp) guard people paint over it, they come back and tag it again. So it is nice to see some karma.

My argument is that this is not karma because it is not the same group of people that ruin Dave's fence.

3 mid-20's youths, smashed off their faces, no mention of caving equipment / ropes etc - this was no legitmate afternoon outing. I quite believe you that genuine urban caving is fun and adventurous, but this wasn't the case here.

I think there's a bit of confusion here. Two points.

Firstly, "urban caving" is a term given by the media for such things. Other terms are "buildering", "urban exploration" and "structuring". Terms given by the media need not have much in common with real terms, just how they seem. Therefore it is not a requirement for "urban cavers" to have all the gear of real cavers to be labeled as such.

Secondly, actual caving doesn't necessarily entail proper equipment either. All it requires is the exploration of caves.

They were in a prohibited area, tagging, drunk, plus who knows what else we weren't told. As I said before, criminals, and on several accounts. The world is a better place without them.

The law's the law and yes they were breaking it on multiple accounts. I contest whether abiding by the law makes the world a better place though. I'm sure anyone who has gone over the speed limit intentionally would agree it doesn't always.

Part of the thrill with "urban exploration" is the risk of getting caught. They broke the law so yes, they should be punished but I do not believe they deserved to die for it. Especially when the "crime" affects people less than running a red.

[Mekk]

Immediately after posting I had a look at the picture of those two people fucking on the bridge and wondered if you lot would have sympathy if the people that died were screwing in the drain.

Why aren't people wishing they had fallen off the bridge and died? It's the same kind of illegal, we don't know if they've been drinking or not and it sure as hell would affect your windscreen if they fell on you.

Not only is this condoned on the other thread, it's being cheered on! Why the double standards?

[MSTRS:Me]

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places.....They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

Anyone else see the irony in these comments?

I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

Oh, and at 22-27, they were not kids....

If you're referring to the very public reporting of their deaths, then yeah.

Regardless, I don't feel urban cavers deserve the death penalty for pursuing a hobby that affects next to no one.

I also don't think that they deserve to be lumped into the same category as taggers when the entire motive for what they do has nothing to do with that.

I refer to the irony of you describing the actions of taggers vs 'urban cavers'...you seem to think there is a difference in tagging to mark territory or be seen by others, compared with leaving a mark to show they've been there or to be seen by others.
And FWIW, I think 'death penalty' is a tad harsh - but anyone stupid enough to enter a stormwater drain in bad weather...well, Darwin at work. No sympathy here.