Interesting development in OZ for 125GP class

**Dodgy** · 24th January 2008, 08:31

Originally Posted by koba

I heard a rumor that the tigcraft one was closer to 80.

Nah, that sounds like the trailling F3 racers trying to make themselves feel better

Even the 600 singles would struggle to get to 80hp (hey, I have tried to squeeze max out of a 600ccc single and know it aint easy if you want to finish a race too
Jason made it look like it had 80hp cause he can ride extremely well!

**koba** · 24th January 2008, 08:50

Originally Posted by Dodgy

hey, I have tried to squeeze max out of a 600ccc single and know it aint easy if you want to finish a race too

I know exactly what you mean with that.

**onearmedbandit** · 24th January 2008, 09:13

Originally Posted by diesel pig

That is plain wrong the fastest 500's (Always the NSRs) made 195hp in the last season for the 500's. The 990's that won races made 240-245hp from the start(Hondas and Ducatis, the Yamahas made 240hp by the time Rossi was on one.) So the 990s had more power from the start. Thats why they came out of corners faster and were fast down the straights.

In 2002 (the first year of the 4 strokes) the RC211V of Rossi was putting out 220hp. The 499cc V4 was capable of over 200hp, so the difference is not as big as you would think.
4th Paragraph
4th Paragraph (again)

**cowpoos** · 24th January 2008, 09:31

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

In 2002 (the first year of the 4 strokes) the RC211V of Rossi was putting out 220hp. The 499cc V4 was capable of over 200hp, so the difference is not as big as you would think.
4th Paragraph
4th Paragraph (again)

thanks bro...ya saved me going searching...

another Major difference between the engines in the two strokes had a lower weight internals..so getting them to spin up to speed to accelerate required less HP from the engine..

Does anyone know where to get trap [speed trap] speeds from on the net...I'm curious to see the difference in teminal velocity at the end of straigh aways between the 2st and 4st bikes.

**onearmedbandit** · 24th January 2008, 09:42

The original 'Faster' DVD had a comparison, and in 2002 the 4st's were faster in top speed than the 2st's, but at that stage the teams were fully developing the 4st's. I'd have to rewatch the DVD to get the actual speeds.

**k14** · 24th January 2008, 09:50

You can get it off motogp.com under results.

**k14** · 24th January 2008, 10:03

Originally Posted by cowpoos

thanks bro...ya saved me going searching...

another Major difference between the engines in the two strokes had a lower weight internals..so getting them to spin up to speed to accelerate required less HP from the engine..

Does anyone know where to get trap [speed trap] speeds from on the net...I'm curious to see the difference in teminal velocity at the end of straigh aways between the 2st and 4st bikes.

I think that a good example of the difference is philip island qualifying the first year they had 4st. McWilliams (i think?) put the proton 2st on pole (last time a 2st was on pole). I think this shows that on a fast flowing track you can get the 2st going faster, but on a stop/start track the 4st will always win. Because of the very steep power band of a 2st they will always loose out on a circuit that requires lots of braking and accelerating. Whereas a 4st will loose out on a high speed flowing circuit (eg Philip Island).

I guess it will be an argument only solved in a few years time though.

**F5 Dave** · 24th January 2008, 14:11

And may they litter the racetrack with valves & all sorts of other unnecessary engine componentry.

Veckin' tree huggin wankers & Honda themselves. Lets all ride sanitised 2 wheeled Volvos.

**scott411** · 24th January 2008, 15:20

this will triple the cost of running a 125gp bike,

thats what happened to mx bikes, the four strokes will become as fast, but will be 3 times the price to run,

long live the 2 strokes, fast, fun and cheap

**steveyb** · 24th January 2008, 19:56

Y'all also miss the point about capacity.
Noting that the 4st needed 990cc to compete effectively against the 500cc 2st and that only a FACTORY 250cc single 4st engine is competitive against a 125cc 2st. If MotoGP had really been serious about opening the playing field rather than pandering to the big 4 factories (but also Ducati as they don't build 2st engines) they would have allowed 600 or 650cc 2st in the premier class. Some privateers such as maybe Roberts would have gone that route.
It would be interesting to see a good 500 against the new 800cc bikes, but the level of development on the 800 exceeds that of the 500 so it cannot really be compared that easily.

Remember what it really means: Factory engine, not available to public, only lasts one meeting then needs rebuild, all the most expensive materials and add-ons, Ti, Mg, Carbon etc etc.
The customer 250 GP Mono is not competitive against 125GP bikes. We will not see competitive 4st bikes until they go to 200cc twin as argued for by Harald Bartol, and he knows what he is talking about.
(He argues for 200cc and 400cc twin 4st to replace 125 and 250 bikes)
Green technology for 2st is already in place. Some new 2st designs produce fewer emissions than 4st.

Enjoy it while you can.

Steve

**diesel pig** · 24th January 2008, 20:39

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

In 2002 (the first year of the 4 strokes) the RC211V of Rossi was putting out 220hp. The 499cc V4 was capable of over 200hp, so the difference is not as big as you would think.
4th Paragraph
4th Paragraph (again)

Over 200hp is myth making nonsense, GP Reporter Alan Cathcart testing the last NSR 500 in 2002 was told by the Honda top joker it made 195hp. I read that report in No 124 Classic Racer but it would of been in other mag's from 2002. Your bloke rounded it up in his paragraph to make it sound better.

220hp for the 990's was what the factories talked about limiting the bikes because they thought the 990's would destroy rear tyres. When they started racing they just dialed them up to max power. That comes from Stanko's book on the 990 motoGP racers by Mat Oxley, An other GP reporter who knows the right people to find this sort of info out.

**gav** · 24th January 2008, 21:03

I think the figures posted by Diesel Pig are closer to the truth......

**Dodgy** · 25th January 2008, 08:39

Yeah, but did Dorna/FIM whoever was in charge (Honda??) stifle the future of 2 strokes by banning direct injection. If the 500s had no development restrictions, the emissions et all could have been sorted out by direct injection

Remember when Itoh first did 200mph on the injected 500? Not much different to 199mph he reckoned...

Steve's point is interesting. If 500s had not had development blocked and had progressed it would have been interesting to see how they compared to the 800. F5 Dave and I went to PI the last year of the 500, which was when the 1000s came in. It was pretty cool to see the likes of McCoy one lap down (he pulled in on the first lap with a duff rear tyre) but doing the business on the 500!

**F5 Dave** · 25th January 2008, 08:49

Yeah, they are all a bunch of ghey softcocks impotently trying to stuff their flaccid members up each others backsides.

Prevent development & sanitise the racing machines. Unleaded petrol killed off the V-twin 500s. Bring in Diesels, but let them be twice as big & remove their noise restrictions.

Gee aren't 4 strokes great?

Doohan on a screamer NSR. Now there was something impressive to watch.