Staggered formation is wrong

[RT527]

Remember ladies and gents, that the 2 sec rule apply s to anything in your lane in front of you...so whether a bike is staggered and to the left of you in your lane you should be two secs from it... so even if he moves into your side of the lane he will still be 2 secs from you...simple eh?!.

[Street Gerbil]

I can see how single file is safer, but staggered formation is fine as long as no one tries to pull wheelies or do some similar shit. And it sure as hell looks awe inspiring.

[Ralph]

To me single file doesn't make sense, always have ridin staggered down straights. usually about 1-2 sec or more from the bike in front of me in my lane for two reasons i can think of right now.

1. Less chance of debris being flicked up from the bike in front hitting my helmet, headlight, paint, radiator etc
2. More visibilty.

The corners are different as I think staying staggered on a corner as a bad idea and should spread out.

[mangell6]

Remember ladies and gents, that the 2 sec rule apply s to anything in your lane in front of you...so whether a bike is staggered and to the left of you in your lane you should be two secs from it... so even if he moves into your side of the lane he will still be 2 secs from you...simple eh?!.

Several years ago a group of friends were riding as we tend to do on a 'trip', there were more than 10 of us and we rode in a staggered formation with the recommended gap between "vehicles" of 2 seconds. This was a previously agreed upon riding formation that we have used many times.

I was riding to the left of the left lane and a wasp entered my full face helmet, as I tend to react severely to their venom I immediately stopped suddenly (emergency braking) and pulled further left. As we were '"touring" this sudden and unexpected action on my part surprised the rider immediately behind me, who was riding to the right of the left lane, who passed me on my right and the person behind them (left/left lane) moved to their right and went past as well.

As has been stated the 2 sec rule is for the vehicle that is next in the "legal" lane and NOT the said vehicle directly in front of you.

As you said having a 2 second rule for the second vehicle in front of you is down right stupid and adds risk.

Mike

PS Jantar, Blackbird and I rode over 6,000 kms together using the staggered method and neither of us had ridden together before. We survived.

[betti]

I reckon stagggered is the way to go, a problem we used to have with learners back in the day when instructing was the "junction shunt", first bike comes to a junction looks right, if the way is clear pulls out, all good.
Unless as happened fairly regularly, they stall or wobble etc. Then rider two, if riding in single file, looks to the right, sees way is clear and accelerates straight into the bike of a (now stalled ) rider one!.
Staggered riding, while not the cure for all ills seems to me to give you the best safety margins.

My two cents.

[Jiminy]

Ahh but there is. Then you have a 4 second buffer. It's more comfortable - and safe.

Regarding the left hand wheel track, I often use it quite deliberately. Coming up to an intersection with cars waiting or approaching from the left, I move left so I'm not masked or hidden by the car in front of me. I also flick my light onto full beam (if it's not there already)

Fully behind you Grub. It should stay 2 seconds from anything in front of you, staggered or not. With more bikes around, things can get messy in case of an emergency, so you can't have too many seconds.

And being in a staggered formation means that you are more visible for the rider ahead, and that you see the rider behind more easily. I also see riders in groups around me as potential hazards, so I keep an eye on them as I do with any other vehicle.

I'm not very convinced by the staggered position in curves, though. However, if you respect the 2 seconds rule, you won't have any problem if you 'unstagger' for the curve. Experienced riders, what's your view here?

[Mental Trousers]

As long as people realise they still require plenty of space around them when riding in staggered formation there's no problem. As long as they maintain good seperation they're able to move around in the lane (for instance when approaching corners, avoiding the wash from trucks etc) as they would when not in a group.

Even when riding line abreast (appropriate spacing etc) the motorcycle in front blocks the view up ahead so staggered is much better.

Doesn't matter what formation you use, it's a problem if there isn't enough space to move or see.

[DingoZ]

From a "Learner's" Point of view.

I have been on a few group rides now. One being almost 1000km's long. All of this ride was done in staggered formation. No problems. 2-4 secs seperation, more at some stages.

Another one just recently a tip was passed on. Maintain the seperation in staggered formation, and when cornering, move into single file (or ride your line) , then move back into staggered again on the exit of the corner.... If you have enough of a gap to the rider in front, this should not be a problem...

One thing I have noticed with all the rides so far, and with everyone that I have ridden with so far is that everyone gives everyone else plenty of room.

Grp riding is something which takes a while to get used to, and for it to be done properly I guess......... (but thats just from my point of view).....

[mowgli]

Nicely put DingoZ.

I think some on here are missing the point of the 2 second rule. It's designed to provide enough space between you and the vehicle in front such that you can stop without hitting them when the first indication you have of them stopping is their brake lights. That's because in a car the driver's eyes are relatively low and it's often difficult to see what's happening directly in front of the car ahead - hence the need for 2 seconds.

On a bike if you're following directly behind another rider then I agree that you need 2 seconds. The rider ahead is obscuring your view. If on the other hand you are staggered then you can easily see whatever is in front of the rider one-up on you by looking diagonally across the lane. You will probably see hazards at the same time and begin braking together.

On a corner everyone falls into single file reducing the spacing to 1 second but now because of the bend in the road you can still see past the rider one-up.

The important point to note here is that this is group riding - not a fang in and amongst the cages. You're all going to the same place and (probably) travelling at a sensible speed for the conditions. As far as you're concerned the riders in front will behave predictably. Their speed and positioning will also signal hazards even before you've seen them yourself which is very useful.

Last thing I'll point out is that the further you are from another rider the harder it is to notice subtle changes in closure. Flying in formation glued to the other guy's wing is much easier than doing it at wider spacing. Simple reason is that you notice the changes earlier and therefore the control inputs remain small.

[NordieBoy]

Remember ladies and gents, that the 2 sec rule apply s to anything in your lane in front of you...so whether a bike is staggered and to the left of you in your lane you should be two secs from it... so even if he moves into your side of the lane he will still be 2 secs from you...simple eh?!.

+ 1

[NordieBoy]

On a corner everyone falls into single file reducing the spacing to 1 second but now because of the bend in the road you can still see past the rider one-up.

Nope.

Your reaction time is now halved.
Sure, you can see up ahead but you only have 1 sec to respond to anything the rider in front of you does.

[mowgli]

Nope.

Your reaction time is now halved.
Sure, you can see up ahead but you only have 1 sec to respond to anything the rider in front of you does.

No. My reaction time is the same. The space between me and the guy ahead has halved.

Since we're talking about an "organised" group ride there is no reason to expect the rider in front to do anything other than ride with the group. Group riding is not where a few bikers happen to clump together in traffic. In that case you've no idea what the other riders have in mind and I'd advocate the 2s rule all the way.

As an aside it's interesting to note that in the latest amendment to the rule they've written the minimum following distance into law rather than leave it to common sense. The minimum legal following distance for a vehicle travelling at 90kph is now 36m which equates to about one and a half seconds. Where in hell did they come up with that figure I wonder

[Zapf]

staggered while on a stright road is fine. But on twisties and bends we tend to change back to single file. More room that way to avoide the potholes and what not on the road

[Nasty]

Since we're talking about an "organised" group ride there is no reason to expect the rider in front to do anything other than ride with the group. Group riding is not where a few bikers happen to clump together in traffic. In that case you've no idea what the other riders have in mind and I'd advocate the 2s rule all the way.

Its not the other riders in the group that you have to worry about .. its the other vehicles on the road ... there is every reason to expect the unexpected .. and that is what you should do not matter who you are riding with.

[Skunk]

Last time I read the Law on this (some time ago) you were not allowed more than four bikes in a group and must be staggered (one second behind the diagonal/two seconds behind the one directly in front).

I've done many group rides in staggered formation (mostly six or seven bikes) and never had an issue. As long as everyone does the right thing everything would be fine with either formation.

But single file is a lot of road covered in bikes. A sure way to get split up and riders trying to catch up. That's when you have problems...