Staggered formation is wrong

[RT527]

Nicely put DingoZ.



On a bike if you're following directly behind another rider then I agree that you need 2 seconds. The rider ahead is obscuring your view. If on the other hand you are staggered then you can easily see whatever is in front of the rider one-up on you by looking diagonally across the lane. You will probably see hazards at the same time and begin braking together.



.

Not quite correct your missing the point that the other person , the one thats staggered may not be able to maintain his lane within his lane.....so if he is only 1 sec in front and to the side and moves right, into you're zone , and hard on the brakes you are not going to be able to react...also if you are the one following and you hit him ....you will be charged.

Thing is no one rides along looking where someone else is going, and you shouldn't be either!.
So common sense says give every one in you're Lane , being from the shoulder to the centre line 2 secs.

[KoroJ]

Group riding is all about common sense.

I find with riders I know and am comfortable with, the gap may close a bit and as for staggered or not, it usually comes down to the type of ride, nature of the road and speed.

Most rides tend to stagger at slower speeds and on straighter roads but spread and fall into single file on narrow or 'interesting roads as riders fall into their own pace.

I might ask here, "When has any Welly rider gone over the Rimutakas in a staggered formation"? (and that goes for your favourite road wherever you come from)

[mowgli]

Not quite correct your missing the point that the other person , the one thats staggered may not be able to maintain his lane within his lane.....so if he is only 1 sec in front and to the side and moves right, into you're zone , and hard on the brakes you are not going to be able to react...also if you are the one following and you hit him ....you will be charged.

Thing is no one rides along looking where someone else is going, and you shouldn't be either!.
So common sense says give every one in you're Lane , being from the shoulder to the centre line 2 secs.

I can see your reasoning but think you are missing my point. Regardless of how close the rider in front is you should be scanning for hazards out to 10-12s into the distance. In single file your view of the road ahead, and therefore your notice of impending hazards, is obscured by the rider ahead. When staggered your view is less obscured.

Remember the guy in front is travelling the same way and at the same speed as you are. He's not going to throw out the picks without good reason. When staggered there's every chance that you will have observed the same hazard and be equally quick out with the stoppers. In single file your first indication of the hazard might be the brake lights of the guy in front and that case even 2s might not quite be enough!

In essence I think we agree on this: Position yourself such that you have the best chance of a) observing hazards and b) avoiding the vehicle in front. Following someone you don't know or your average adolescent in their suped up jappa you might do well to hang back 2s or more. Following a mate you might be comfortable a little closer.

[vagrant]

In essence I think we agree on this: Position yourself such that you have the best chance of a) observing hazards and b) avoiding the vehicle in front. Following someone you don't know or your average adolescent in their suped up jappa you might do well to hang back 2s or more. Following a mate you might be comfortable a little closer.

Thats it in a nutshell.

[RT527]

Thats it in a nutshell.

Yup fully agree with ya there, and I do get your point mowgli

[Big Dave]

I usually stagger out of the bedroom.

[warewolf]

I usually stagger out of the bedroom.

...at the crack of noon and hopefully not with all your 'riding' buddies...

[RT527]

...at the crack of noon and hopefully not with all your 'riding' buddies...

Who`s Noon.....????

[Swoop]

Who`s Noon.....????

Dawn's brother.

[warewolf]

If you are riding in a group situation then you are not "playing", you are riding. You do still have your buffer zone, because there is a normal gap to the rider in front, and there are is no traffic alongside. If you do need to make a deviation because of an obstruction or similar, then you can, safely and quickly, and still return to your own part of the lane as soon as possible.

OK bad choice of words on my part, by 'playing' I was using the vernacular (as do most rider trainers) to mean 'adjust your road position to suit the conditions', mea culpa. I don't have a full buffer zone because you are telling me I can only use half of the lane?! I regularly use all of my lane to pick the best line (not just around corners) and avoid 'hazards'. There is no way that I'm going to restrict myself to half a lane when I ride.

[Blue Velvet]

I thought one of the main reasons for riding in staggered formation is to make it more obvious to cage drivers that there's more than one bike... If you're riding single file they may not see the bike behind etc.

That's not to say they'll act any differently. But it's easier for them to tell.

$0.02

[warewolf]

Staggered formation as a reason to avoid hitting the bike in front is a moot point.

The whole point of the 2 second rule is to enable you to avoid hitting the vehicle in front. This is not a bike-specific rule, it is a general rule for all traffic. By definition, if you have the 2 second buffer, you don't need to be staggered.

Yes, visibility past the bike in front can be improved by not being directly in line, ditto being the target of thrown debris, but you've only got to move 30cm either side and at your discretion to achieve these goals. This is not staggered formation. That decision is the same one you make all the time while riding... where is the best position for me to be?

[warewolf]

I thought one of the main reasons for riding in staggered formation is to make it more obvious to cage drivers that there's more than one bike... If you're riding single file they may not see the bike behind etc.

That's probably self-defeating. From a distance the pairs of head or tail lights will look like a car.

Besides, if there is an oncoming car, all riders should be moving to the left wheel track to maximise their safety buffer... again, this results in no staggered formation. I find it amusing and sad that when I move from a more dangerous position to a safer position, the rider behind will often expose themselves to unnecessary danger by moving closer to the hazard I've just moved away from! All because they are more fixated on riding in 'staggered formation' than they are about really thinking about what they are doing and their own safety.

[Blue Velvet]

From a distance the pairs of head or tail lights will look like a car.

Still better than looking like one motorcycle IMHO.

I find it amusing and sad that when I move from a more dangerous position to a safer position, the rider behind will often expose themselves to unnecessary danger by moving closer to the hazard I've just moved away from! All because they are more fixated on riding in 'staggered formation' than they are about really thinking about what they are doing and their own safety.

Well obviously the road situation changes and you adapt. Those that do it badly end up custard.

[NC]

There is only one time when I have had a problem riding in staggard formation.
I was riding along with an ex (I was on the left of the lane and he was on the right) We were going about 65 in a 50 and he spots a cop up ahead and slams on his brakes and swerves to the left right into my path. Hardly evasive action.

Other than that.

I think it's a great way to ride.
Obviously when coming up to corners that you need to adjust your position on the road of course your going to end up behind each other in a straight line, but if you're on to it enough you should be giving the rider in front of you enough room in case the need to make some sort of evasive action.