Buggered handling (Pilot Road 2)

[RantyDave]

So, I just had some Pilot Road 2's fitted, replacing a getting knackered Pilot Power on the front and vastly knackered M3 on the rear. The bike's handling has gone entirely to shit.

Basically the front tyre feels like it wants to pull more into the corner once it's entered in - I find myself (slightly) fighting the tyres desire to countersteer more. On my previous tyres I'd taken a buttload of preload off - possibly effectively lowering the front - and this had helped turn in. I just went for a quick ride with a spanner and ended up putting almost all the preload back on. This helped quite a bit but now the suspension feels, well, like it's got loads of preload on. Kinda stiff, really.

I was wondering if anyone had felt this before and might have some pointers on what to do. I'm tempted to push the forks down the triple clamp by a couple of mill, then taking the preload off again. It might also pay to play around with tyre pressures, I guess. Any ideas?

Dave

[Hitcher]

10,000km of riding should sort it. Or a trip back to your friendly bike shop and swap the PR2s for something more agile and suiting the nature of your Triumph, before they get too worn.

[jrandom]

Odd. Throughout 1,000km or so on the road and a trackday at Taupo, I haven't noticed any desire to 'flop in' from Betty's Pilot Road 2s. They turn steadily and predictably, and are very happy to sit at speed at any lean angle you like.

Are you sure it's not just that your suspension was radically adjusted to compensate for shagged and, more importantly, mismatched tyres? I can't say I'd be keen on running a Pilot Power front and an M3 rear together.

Then again, I would expect excellent mileage from M3s on a Speed Four. Why didn't you just go for a set of those? Superior traction and feel to the PR2s by far, and much better suited to a light bike.

[jrandom]

muttermuttermutter

Up for a bike swap next time I'm in town?

Betty and her Michelins will melt your heart, I'm sure.

[MSTRS:Me]

Haven't felt any of that which you describe, R-D. In fact, front is so smooth and predictably planted that I have been able to body steer on sweeping downhill corners (hands off the bars). Downhill in 6th, so road speed stays steady.
And no, I'm not promoting dangerous antics on the road, just interesting to observe the bike's ability to stay pointed and upright by weight control only

[Hitcher]

Up for a bike swap next time I'm in town?

Betty and her Michelins will melt your heart, I'm sure.

I'm definitely up for a swap! And I think you misunderstand me. I enjoyed my PR2s -- indeed I rate them almost as highly as I do the Storms, out of all of the sports touring tyres I have consumed in over 140,000km of large bike riding. If the front hadn't shat itself prior to the rear, I may still be running these.

But having ridden a Speed Triple fitted with PR2s, I believe that some bikes are not suited to certain types of tyres. Despite wear attributes, I suspect a Speed Triple and even a Speed Four, would perform eminently better on Pilot Sports, Avon Vipers, Pirelli Diablos or similar.

I even met a dude on Saturday who was running Conti RoadAttacks on his GSXR1000K5. Most strange. He said he wanted better wear.

[jrandom]

In fact, front is so smooth and predictably planted that I have been able to body steer on sweeping downhill corners (hands off the bars)

Hey, I've recently been inspired to start doing the same!

If there are pedestrians, cage traffic or following riders for an audence, it's particularly fun to use both hands in canoe-paddling motions.

[RantyDave]

10,000km of riding should sort it. Or a trip back to your friendly bike shop and swap the PR2s for something more agile and suiting the nature of your Triumph, before they get too worn.

My friendly bike shop suggested that I hover around while they swap the tyres over and do a WOF. Starting at 8am, because I have work. Two hours later I finally left. My nightmares now have two pieces of spray painted plastic and the words "bling it up" being used to sell a cruiser.

I doubt they'd exchange them, and there may not be enough years left in my life to go through the whole procedure again.

More seriously I *did* read the PR2/Avons thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=64682) and while opinions were evenly divided on which were the better tyre (with a thread on another forum suggesting the PR2's wore significantly more slowly) nobody mentioned an absence of nimbleness. It's not like the tyres came with a sticker saying "not nimble tyres, not at all, use only on goldwings" and, besides, a lack of nimbleness is not really my problem. Possibly quite the opposite.

Sigh. Richard was trying to foist some Conti's on me, but I'm not good with having things foisted. Particularly when I have to commute along the motorway now and tyre wear has become a big deal.

Dave

[jrandom]

Sigh. Richard was trying to foist some Conti's on me, but I'm not good with having things foisted. Particularly when I have to commute along the motorway now and tyre wear has become a big deal.

Well, the PR2s are fine tyres. You shouldn't really be having significant handling issues with them.

I would suggest a review of your bike's static sag and compression and rebound rate settings. Not that I'd really know, of course. But it does sound a bit a like suspension configuration thing, given that your tale of woe doesn't match the usual PR2 comments.

How do you have your rear shock set up?

Some googling reveals relevant comments:

"I really like the round profile of the Pilots as the turn in is a bit slower, but increadibly linear and super stable, which is more of an advantae on the stret than track I think." [sic]

I definitely second the general remarks about PR2s having stable and deliberate turning characteristics. I'd be hesitant to blame your tyres.

[RantyDave]

How do you have your rear shock set up?

Symmetrical, six clicks IIRC. Kinda stiff. The front is (was) much softer - four clicks. Perhaps I should set it back to the factory default and see how we go, but with Pilot Powers' the factory default was awful. Hmmmm.

Dave

[jrandom]

Symmetrical, six clicks IIRC. Kinda stiff. The front is (was) much softer - four clicks. Perhaps I should set it back to the factory default and see how we go, but with Pilot Powers' the factory default was awful. Hmmmm.

I assume you're talking about preload, there.

Does your suspension also offer adjustable damping, and if so, is it separately adjustable for compression and rebound?

I wouldn't have thought that you could muck up a bike's handling to the extent you describe with nothing but preload adjustment.



Have you checked the tyre pressures since you had them fitted?

[jafar]

Would it be fair to suggest that the new tyres are working a bit too well ??
Reset the suspension to default & work it out from there.

I recently replaced a Pilot Road with a Pilot Road 2 on the front of my cb 1300 & experienced a similar effect to the one your talking about.

[jrandom]

Would it be fair to suggest that the new tyres are working a bit too well ??

Actually, that's a good point. Maybe RantyDave should pop by a bike shop and take a fully stock demo bike of some sort similar to his out for a spin, just to get himself a baseline for comparison.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah my new front Power 2CT grips quicker into turn which at first felt odd like I had to counter steer more because I guess the rubber changes from a harder compound to a softer compound so maybe it grabs..........don't the 2's have the same....Dan can no doubt fill me in on whether that is correct.

[jafar]

Actually, that's a good point. Maybe RantyDave should pop by a bike shop and take a fully stock demo bike of some sort similar to his out for a spin, just to get himself a baseline for comparison.

That could be an expensive exercise, especially if he ends up buying the 'test bike'

Going from a bike with shagged tyres to one with new tyres does make the bike handle differently. Often it is just a case of readjustment. A couple of hundred k's will normally sort it out.