Anybody see Close Up at 7 tonight? Even if you didn't

[Motu]

Yeah,but would you wave to them? that's the most important thing.I wouldn't wave to a rapper,don't wave to disco,....I'd wave to Roy Buchanan though...

[edit] Hey,time for my rant! what's this sending all my posts to the top of page 2,I'm getting pissed off with this,it means everyone see's what I wrote soon as they go to page 2....just cut it out eh?

[MOTOXXX]

if ol marshal mathers is just grabin the cash then i say good on him.

how many other famouse white rappers are there. more or less none realy aprt from the guy from cypress hill. He would have worked bloody hard to get to where he is today. sure hes controversial but media coverage is always good for record sales.

i personaly cant relate to his music or upbringing but he has found something hes good at and found a way to sell it.


hey at least hes not breaking into cars or houses.

[James Deuce]

I think I come off pretty well in the 'corporate sponsorship' test, I have never paid for any kind of brand-name anything, the last time I bought a CD was when I was 9 or so.

Wot, so you don't buy Coke or Eta chips?

[Jamezo]

Wot, so you don't buy Coke or Eta chips?

I've never bought coke, though I have bought a truckload of L&P

I've never bought ETA chips either, but that's just semantics.

The point I was trying to make, is that I purchase based on quality, not on brand name, if somebody else made a better L&P, I'd buy it!

As I have come to understand it, people buy Eminems albums/merchandise/concert tickets not because it is amazing music, but because through the mass media, the public has been told that it is 'cool' and that you 'need' it.

The same rule applies to many objects that dominate peoples lives, nobody needs calvin klein, nobody needs tickle-me-elmos, yet countless hordes are driven into frenzies by both.

An artificial need is created by advertising, and the makers get rich. Everybody wins? Hmm...

Eminem's music can be compared to the tickle-me-elmo, not being particularly brilliant in design or execution, with just enough mass appeal and novelty value to create a sensation, creating a snowball effect of media coverage and massive demand.

There is so much amazing brilliant beautiful music out there, but the masses will most likely never hear it, because there is little money to be made from high quality non-sensationalised music. a few amazing artists slip through the cracks, enjoying good commercial success while dedicated to producing amazing music, people like Joe Satriani and Gary Moore.

[James Deuce]

I've never bought coke, though I have bought a truckload of L&P

I've never bought ETA chips either, but that's just semantics.

The point I was trying to make, is that I purchase based on quality, not on brand name, if somebody else made a better L&P, I'd buy it!

You've completely missed the point. Anything that is manufactured by a corporate organisation has the same sort of BS you're complaining about in the music world with it. L&P is made by the same company who make Coke in this country. Everybody in western society has bought into the corporate "BS" way of things whether they like it or not. Even alternative lifestylers will have a Stanley screwdriver in the toolbox somewhere and a pair of gumboots.

Quality is one of those words that is hugely difficult to define because it is purely subjective at personal, social, ethnic, cultural, demographic, and semantic level (any many other levels besides). In the the case of L&P, what you believe to be quality is an overly sweet imitation of the orginal product produced and bottled from a spring near Paeroa, for me.

You're arguing about style, taste, and corporate marketing, all of which defy rational explanation. You've massively over simplified Eminem's music and lyrical content because it suits your argument to do so. Satriani is a souless hack, who Muddy Waters could make look like a kiddy playing in the children's pool at the local swimming baths in comparision. But that's my opinion, I claim it as such, and I will discuss the reasons for my opinion happily, but I won't try to convert someone who doesn't get it. But from my perspective Satriani passed a good chunk of technique to Steve Vai, who I believe to be a superior musician in every way. Therefore Satiriani has still made a contribution to stuff that I like, and I enjoy listening to his stuff to see what Vai took from it.

Big picture, and try to avoid the sweeping statements.

[bluninja]

Personally I enjoyed 'Stan' and 'Lose yourself' . Saying there is no rythmn in the music...I would say that eminem is all about cadence and rythmn.

Not sure if this post is a cheap mans rebel marketing campaign. Slag someone successful off then put a link to your own music so people will go and listen. Hope the whistling is in tune!

[Jamezo]

You've completely missed the point. Anything that is manufactured by a corporate organisation has the same sort of BS you're complaining about in the music world with it. L&P is made by the same company who make Coke in this country. Everybody in western society has bought into the corporate "BS" way of things whether they like it or not. Even alternative lifestylers will have a Stanley screwdriver in the toolbox somewhere and a pair of gumboots.

Quality is one of those words that is hugely difficult to define because it is purely subjective at personal, social, ethnic, cultural, demographic, and semantic level (any many other levels besides). In the the case of L&P, what you believe to be quality is an overly sweet imitation of the orginal product produced and bottled from a spring near Paeroa, for me.

You're arguing about style, taste, and corporate marketing, all of which defy rational explanation. You've massively over simplified Eminem's music and lyrical content because it suits your argument to do so. Satriani is a souless hack, who Muddy Waters could make look like a kiddy playing in the children's pool at the local swimming baths in comparision. But that's my opinion, I claim it as such, and I will discuss the reasons for my opinion happily, but I won't try to convert someone who doesn't get it. But from my perspective Satriani passed a good chunk of technique to Steve Vai, who I believe to be a superior musician in every way. Therefore Satiriani has still made a contribution to stuff that I like, and I enjoy listening to his stuff to see what Vai took from it.

Big picture, and try to avoid the sweeping statements.

with regard to the soft drink shizzle, I was only trying to humour your question, I am well aware that they are produced by the same company, as well as the fact that modern L&P bears no resemblance to it's namesake of yore.

I can honestly state that my level of corporate buy in is very slim, and I do not feel as if I am depriving myself of anything meaningful, as I will still buy things like L&P, if I genuinely think it tastes better than any other soft drink I know of. A matter of taste, but this cannot be compared to music, it would be an incredibly tall order to argue that Eminem's music is musically superior to Vai or Satriani.

I would be happy to talk music with ya, I happen to find a lot in both Vai and Satriani, as a matter of fact I'm listening to For The Love of God right now, that's a song and a half all right.

Have you heard Ceremony, The Forgotten Part II and Crushing Day by Satriani? Those are my personal favourites.

I didn't mention Vai, as he just hasn't had the commercial success of Satriani, not too sure how many people would have heard of him.

Ever heard much Jason Becker, Michael Angelo or Yngwie Malmsteen? (there's a bit of a trend going on there )

[Jamezo]

Personally I enjoyed 'Stan' and 'Lose yourself' . Saying there is no rythmn in the music...I would say that eminem is all about cadence and rythmn.

Not sure if this post is a cheap mans rebel marketing campaign. Slag someone successful off then put a link to your own music so people will go and listen. Hope the whistling is in tune!

ahaha, no man, that's not even my own music really, just covers.

I mean, there's a fair bit of my interpretation involved, but I didn't sit down and write it all.

feel free to listen to it though

[Blakamin]

I didn't mention Vai, as he just hasn't had the commercial success of Satriani, not too sure how many people would have heard of him.

Ever heard much Jason Becker, Michael Angelo or Yngwie Malmsteen? (there's a bit of a trend going on there )

OK...no commercial success???
Vai, Satriani & Malmsteen are still selling out concerts to this day! why? because in the 80's they were a commercial success! (back in the days of "hair metal" and what should have been called "Fastest Fingers First")
They still are or someone wouldnt be fronting the money... the G3 concerts aren't cheap to get tickets to....
So you're obviously someone that buys "Guitar Player" or something like that every month... another commercial product! the dont bring out that mag to lose money!

Personally, I think that Vai, Satriani & Malmsteen are still churning out the same stuff they did 15 yrs ago and thats why it hasnt become more mainstream... (did you listen to "big bad moon" )
They've got their crowd (95% of which are "guitar player"-reading guitarists), emeinem has his crowd (R&B listening young people)
I know for a fact in this country there are more R&B young people than guitar-weilding g3 fans that go to a pub and listen to jukeboxes...
this from an email i received yeterday

Please send through another C.D, preferably one with the latest R & B sounds e.g Usher, Nelly, Pharrell, R.Kelly etc.
We have a younger set crowd who enjoy R & B

Regards
Hayden
******* Restaurant & Bar

who wouldnt want to make money doing something they love?? and if it appeals to a larger audience, good on them

[toads]

I don't listen to him but he's as relevent to those that do as The Rolling stones or Bob Dylan were/are to me.
You sound just like the OLD farts that put them down,for much the same reasons.
So what have you produced?

well said Jackrat, eminem intends to make his lyrics evoke a response, I think he's very good at what he does, and I'm "old", here's the thing, if ya don't like it, don't listen to it, all this stuff about inappropriate role modelling etc is crap, people like stuff that provokes them, it's nothing new, shakspeare was a complete rebel back in his day.
I have said before that eminem is the Bob Dylan of today and I mean it, he is very good at what he does, you don't like it, tough!

[scumdog]

You see the sort of damage rap music does?

You don't HANG witches! You BURN em! Of course ya gotta dunk them first though (makes them harder to burn) but it's a tradition or an old charter or something...

Paul N

And you gotta tie them to a stake and stack faggots around them and then light the fire, the burning faggots dry the witches out so they can burn, that's the way you do 'em, money for nothing and the witch is free!!

[manuboy]

I rate the guy. He seems to have a conscience, and he uses his reach publicise some of the shit and the hypocrisy that goes on.

Who wouldn't love to be able to stand up and voice their opinions and have the kind of audience this guy does? Like the Imagine remake from Perfect Circle, you might not like the track, but the intent is clear.

Compare that to wonder bunny Scribe. I could be setting myself up here, but all scribe ever seems to focus on is Scribe. Which seems weird in a country that has it's own issues right now (foreskin and seabed anyone?)

Of course the best band in the world right now is Interpol, absolutely no argument

[scumdog]

Personally I enjoyed 'Stan' and 'Lose yourself' . Saying there is no rythmn in the music...I would say that eminem is all about cadence and rythmn.

Yeah but when is this emema guy going to actually SING instead of just snarling in cadence?

[Jamezo]

OK...no commercial success???
Vai, Satriani & Malmsteen are still selling out concerts to this day! why? because in the 80's they were a commercial success! (back in the days of "hair metal" and what should have been called "Fastest Fingers First")
They still are or someone wouldnt be fronting the money... the G3 concerts aren't cheap to get tickets to....
So you're obviously someone that buys "Guitar Player" or something like that every month... another commercial product! the dont bring out that mag to lose money!

Personally, I think that Vai, Satriani & Malmsteen are still churning out the same stuff they did 15 yrs ago and thats why it hasnt become more mainstream... (did you listen to "big bad moon" )
They've got their crowd (95% of which are "guitar player"-reading guitarists), emeinem has his crowd (R&B listening young people)
I know for a fact in this country there are more R&B young people than guitar-weilding g3 fans that go to a pub and listen to jukeboxes...
this from an email i received yeterday

who wouldnt want to make money doing something they love?? and if it appeals to a larger audience, good on them

well, I'm glad that there's some people here that do know of the greats, I'd still have to say that Satriani is the most commerically successful out of all of em. they are still making the same music, though arguably not as good as in the past.

I'd say it would improve this country to really encourage people to play some kind of musical instrument, so they can gain a better appreciation of music, and free themselves from the disgusting embrace of 'popular' music and the sheep-ish-ness that it encourages. so many people think they are being 'different' and 'unique' by listening to rap, but it really is a homogenising factor. there is such an enormous variety of excellent music, enough to suit anybody's tastes, but by and large, the masses aren't interested in it, because they have little development of their musical ear, and so the quality of the music takes a back seat to other factors, like popularity and advertising, when deciding what they listen to.

side note: I've never bought a guitar mag either

[scumdog]

Big picture, and try to avoid the sweeping statements.

My sweeping statement is that despite advertising corporate bull-shit (whatever THAT is) I buy an item either because I NEED that particular item or because I WANT IT for myself, not to be trendy, look good (have you seen me?) or because I want to look cool (ya can't BUY cool) and be part of the "in" crowd.
If the products I buy happen to be "hot", "cool" or whatever at the time I don't give a fat rats arse, in fact I might be annoyed 'cos 'trendy-ness' has probably made the item more costly. :cool2: