Consumerism vs sustainability

[Hitcher]

This may relate to the US rather than New Zealand, but it still gives pause for thought about the legacy we are creating for future generations.

http://www.chrisjordan.com/current_set2.php?id=7

• Rage against waste and want.
• Just enough is plenty.
• Reject the limits of division and self interest.
• Seek freedom. Freedom from greed and from poverty, freedom to learn, freedom to share, freedom to wonder.
• Connect. Our capacity for supporting one another is humanity’s defining virtue.
• Draw strength from unity. Alone we are precious, together we are powerful.
• Take control. We are what we do.

[Blackbird]

This may relate to the US rather than New Zealand, but it still gives pause for thought about the legacy we are creating for future generations.


• Rage against waste and want.
• Just enough is plenty.
• Reject the limits of division and self interest.
• Seek freedom. Freedom from greed and from poverty, freedom to learn, freedom to share, freedom to wonder.
• Connect. Our capacity for supporting one another is humanity’s defining virtue.
• Draw strength from unity. Alone we are precious, together we are powerful.
• Take control. We are what we do.

Mmmmmm..... sounds like the communist manifesto

[Finn]

Wasn't there a movement in the 70's that advocated similar?

[tri boy]

But wasn't it "El Presidante" G W Bush, who said America needs to continue doing what it does best.........Consume
Humans are greedy f**kers by nature, so no matter what the small percentage of decent folk do, the masses will consume like locusts until theres not much left, and the mighty cockroach will rise to power.

[Big Dave]

I *like* being precious.

[Big Dave]

Wasn't there a movement in the 70's that advocated similar?

Willy G Davidson and the Harley AMF buy-back?

[Steam]

• Rage against waste and want.
• Just enough is plenty.

It's all a bit wiffly waffly, hippy, but those two above are vital for our survival, in a world with an exploding population and limited resources.

[jrandom]

a world with an exploding population...

[Finn]

Isn't it incredible how young kids blow up these days.

[Big Dave]

Isn't it incredible how young kids blow up these days.

Spooky.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buel...tml?1201676770

[davereid]

Sustainability... hmm sounds like a great idea.

Except I can't think of anything we have actually ever run-out of !

Looks like everything is sustainable, as long as we have to pay the realprice of using it.

[Cruisin' Craig]

Sustainability... hmm sounds like a great idea.

Except I can't think of anything we have actually ever run-out of !

Looks like everything is sustainable, as long as we have to pay the realprice of using it.

We haven't run out of anything yet, so obviously we never will right?
We have a finite world and we are exponentially increasing the rate at which we use our resources. It's a pretty simple equation!

I'll accept your second point though, as you long we realise that the "real price" could be a hell of a lot more than just dollars.

[davereid]

We haven't run out of anything yet, so obviously we never will right?
We have a finite world and we are exponentially increasing the rate at which we use our resources. It's a pretty simple equation!

I'll accept your second point though, as you long we realise that the "real price" could be a hell of a lot more than just dollars.

Yeah pretty much. We never run out of anything, because as it gets scarce, it gets expensive, so we just use something else.

It will always be the way, unless the cost of the product is distorted by government.

The "real cost" thing ? I guess the best example is nuclear power. Kyoto makes oil and coal seem expensive.

So Nuclear seems cheap, as Kyoto has distorted real cost.

So in order to protect future generations from (the debateable) effects of global warming, we are now building lots of nukes.

Maybe future generation will benefit from our reduced reliance on coal and oil, but hate us for plutonium.

[Cruisin' Craig]

Yeah pretty much. We never run out of anything, because as it gets scarce, it gets expensive, so we just use something else.

It will always be the way, unless the cost of the product is distorted by government.

The "real cost" thing ? I guess the best example is nuclear power. Kyoto makes oil and coal seem expensive.

So Nuclear seems cheap, as Kyoto has distorted real cost.

So in order to protect future generations from (the debateable) effects of global warming, we are now building lots of nukes.

Maybe future generation will benefit from our reduced reliance on coal and oil, but hate us for plutonium.

That's logical. But unfortunately I don't believe the world is always as simple as that.

Sometimes it's possible to go past "tipping points" where irreversible damage is done.

[Hitcher]

So Nuclear seems cheap, as Kyoto has distorted real cost.

Kyoto hasn't distorted the real cost. Indeed it is questionable whether the pump price (or equivalent) for fossil fuels even with the current Kyoto-related carbon charges, fully includes all of the externalities that should be associated with the use of such fuels. It's a bit like flicking cigarette butts away after your last drag. The smoker doesn't give a fuck about what happens to them or what damage they cause. That has been the case, until recently, for users of fossil fuels. Whether one "believes" in climate change/global warming as a consequence of human activity or not, everything we do whilst we live on this planet has consequences -- both for ourselves and future generations. There are nearly 6 billion of us humans alive -- more than have ever lived (that fucks up people who believe in reincarnation, but I digress). Wake up and smell the coffee.