Hint of things to come in good old Kiwi Land

[HTFU]

Remember when a homicide was a big deal and now its a weekly occurence at best. Brazil is a bit worse than that but provides a bit of incite to where our social policies are heading us. Hang on tight folks its going to get rough.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/stor...ectid=10489592

[rainman]

I'm confused.

Brazil's homicide rate is dropping because of "better social welfare, more policing and fewer firearms". "One of the main underlying causes of the violence" is "the vast disparity between rich and poor".

You say a situation like Brazil's is where "our social policies are heading us".

So whose social policies are for worse social welfare, less policing, and more guns, and to increase the disparity between rich and poor?

[Finn]

I'm confused.

It's called "balance".

[rainman]

It's called "balance".

As in "On balance, the argument is complete crap?"

[HTFU]

I'm confused.

So whose social policies are for worse social welfare, less policing, and more guns, and to increase the disparity between rich and poor?

Not to worry it happens to the best of us.

It's a simple case of what social policies do we have now that will contribute to us becoming a mini Brazil. Of course no ones policy is to have less policing but if ones policy is to increase something, but this happens to be at a rate that is not sufficient to meet current needs then its the same thing.

We don't have policies to increase gun use in this country but if there are less people to enforce their use then simply more will be used illegally without license.

As for welfare ( and while we at it education and health ) where do I start ? All this deficiency in funding across the board has contributed over time to the decay we are now seeing more often than not. Where does the wealth in this country end up, profits made etc (how is it social services are so underfunded), its about balance and we are tipping over year after year and now its catching up with us.

When you read about situations in places in Brazil you realise socially we are not that different and are more than likely going to end up the same but on a smaller scale.

The ironic thing is, more people will understand my point of view as greater numbers begin to occur loss, as the social decay starts spreading to their own back door, flash boat, car and house won't matter shit at that point. Think of where the people who control the businesses and government of this country live. They are still segregated from the reality that Kiwis actually live, to them its going sweet, not too much to worry about really. Have a feeling the change that is really needed won't happen fast enough. Its going to get worse before its going to get better (if at all).

So again I say it, we are in for a rough ride and sad thing is, in all of the social institutions of this country, those of us working the coal face have seen it coming and have been frustratingly powerless (despite your social instinct to do good and make positive change).

[McJim]

So whose social policies are for worse social welfare, less policing, and more guns, and to increase the disparity between rich and poor?

Er....from what I've seen so far only 2 parties - Labour and National your point is?

[rainman]

It's a simple case of what social policies do we have now that will contribute to us becoming a mini Brazil.

I believe that was my point.

Of course no ones policy is to have less policing but if ones policy is to increase something, but this happens to be at a rate that is not sufficient to meet current needs then its the same thing.

I'm not too happy to have us get all policed-up over the forthcoming years. Not saying no more police - I understand that Labour is trying to recruit a whole bunch more, and don't think National can credibly turn that policy around given the noise they've made in the house about how unsuccessful the recruiting has been. I have a huge amount of respect for the police in general, but masses more police won't fix the problem.

Where does the wealth in this country end up, profits made etc (how is it social services are so underfunded), its about balance and we are tipping over year after year and now its catching up with us.

Now we're getting somewhere I can agree with.

I spent my youth and early adulthood in a place with loads of guns, huge inequalities in wealth (and structural reasons for these), bugger all social welfare, and a huge murder, assault, rape, ... you name it... rate. But lots of active and well-armed police. Thus my view that sharply increasing police numbers isn't a cure.

Besides, don't we already jail a large number of people, per capita? (for an OECD country at least).

Have a feeling the change that is really needed won't happen fast enough. Its going to get worse before its going to get better (if at all).

Oh I so agree, NZ is a delusional (but lovely) little set of islands that are gonna get a big whack upside the head from Momma Reality one of these days. Which is why both of the major political parties...

Er....from what I've seen so far only 2 parties - Labour and National your point is?

...are such total disappointments, too obsessed with beating each other in the latest poll, and not possessed of a single politician between 'em truly fit for the job.

[pete376403]

I'm confused.

So whose social policies are for worse social welfare, less policing, and more guns, and to increase the disparity between rich and poor?

Fairly good description of the USA under current administration

[rainman]

Fairly good description of the USA under current administration

Yeah. Not a good bunch to imitate!

[The Pastor]

half a million over 10 years is like 130 people a day?

[puddytat]

Vote Green...

[Angusdog]

Population of Brazil (2006): 201,000,000
Population of NZ (2007): 4,000,000
Brazil's level of homicides would work out to be roughly 955 per year in NZ. Or slightly fewer than three per day.

So NZ has a little way to go, but I despair for society when I hear of each violent death in NZ. It used to be extraordinary, and it used to cause uproar. The trial would be reported every day in the papers, and people would talk about it. Now, it's routine unless there's something to make the murder 'stand out' like Tony Stanlake (nearly headless corpse), or the victims or perpetrators were young.

I would love to be Minister of Corrections. I think I would do a good job. I wouldn't be any harder on prisoners who weren't violent and towed the line. But for recidivists and violent people, I would be unkind. I would make prison a place they would not like to return to. If they did return, they would find another level of Hell. And at the bottom level of Hell would be Peter Williams QC and the other penal reformers.

People compared standards of living between Australia and NZ. How about raising the standard of decency? Not everything is about big screen TVs, some of it is about being able to walk around your town without a fear of being assaulted. Every violent death in the media chips away a little at my soul, and makes me a sadder person.

[Hitcher]

Hang on tight folks its going to get rough.

Start your own political party. See if anybody will vote for you. Good luck.

[HTFU]

Start your own political party. See if anybody will vote for you. Good luck.

Yeah, sorry to talk politics. But I guess with the shit skidmark gets to spin on here, the odd thread about NZ social problems is not such a bad use of server space.

My missus always preps me before dinner engagements not to talk sex, politics and religion. . Just can't help myself.

Anyway, not so sure a dictatorship would work so well in KiwiLand.

[idb]

We need to ban young people, and make sure that rich people have more guns than the poor people...just like the good old days of Empire.