I'd like you to resign!!!

[mstriumph]

i wonder how many employees actually get stampeded into resigning in circumstances like this?

please don't be one of them

he's obviously not good at this or he'd not have shown you his hand ....

it may get unpleasant [----then again it COULD even be fun ]
.... but DO NOT RESIGN .....

please keep us posted

[Beemer]

You should be able to legally record any conversation you have with this person as you are a party to the conversation. I can legally record interviews over the phone without telling the other person because I am also taking part in the conversation - if I were taping it on behalf of someone else, that is illegal.

I've worked for bosses like this before. One kept saying the karate club I used to go was useless and I should go along to his club. I did, and he kicked the shit out of me! My club was more into punching whereas his was more like kick-boxing and he would drop to the ground and scissor-kick my legs. I was so badly bruised when I left that I had difficulty pushing the clutch in on the car. He laughed the following day when I told him and said I should harden up. I could barely walk for days and it was only when his wife told him how disgusted she was that he rang and apologised. I started getting a good reputation as a motorsport photographer while I was working for him and he did everything he could to stop me selling them to other publications. The union said as long as I offered the shots to him first, he couldn't stop me, but by god he tried. Every time I complained he would tell me if I didn't like it, I could fuck off! In the end he got me on a technicality. I covered the Rally of NZ and had a few days leave when I got home. I took the photos into the Evening Post (in the old days) and they published one the day before I returned to work, so I was fired for breach of contract. It wasn't worth fighting him as he'd made my life a misery for three years, so I left. Three years later when a relative died and left me shitloads of money I took great delight in telling one of my former colleagues as I knew he would find out about it! He's doing a dead-end job now while I am self-employed, so karma wins out in the end!

[Oakie]

2 days on and still no word. The suspense killing me.
Jeez, I hope they haven't killed him and hidden the body.

[Big Dave]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

[ManDownUnder]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

I thought the "Big Dave's an arsehole" thread was in PD...

[Big Dave]

I thought the "Big Dave's an arsehole" thread was in PD...

I didn't know there was one.

Didn't come across right - I meant it's good to be free of these hassles and can just walk. no strings.
Employment lawyers - yuck.
Then a Manger with no understanding of the rules could cost me 3-15k - depending on salary?

Freelancing is good. If it goes sour you just don't do any more work.
Ah recommends it.

[Mr Merde]

Yellowdog,

I just heard this morning about this.

(For all and sundry I work for the same firm and know exactly who the boss is. Personally I wouldnt urinate on him if he was on fire.)

Sorry about all the sh1t hitting the fan Andrew. In my opinion take the firm for all you can. They have been screwing their employees for years as far as I can see and that particular boss is a nasty piece of slime.


Keep in touch

[lanci]

Make em work for what they want. If you are decent worker, you deserve something for the behaviour of the manager.

On another note, I noticed that Skidmark said that jobs were getting hard to come by............where are you looking mate? Unemployment is at its lowest in years (even if the Sickness Benefit vs Dole numbers have been inflated). Every call centre I know of is under staffed...........

[smoky]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

I’m a manager, I have 32 direct reports. They give me employees who they have issues with to either get ride of them or performance manage them back to where they need to be.

If you’re an honest boss, who respects people, if you treat people how you would expect to be treated – you don’t really have too many problems.
I love managing my team - it's a lot of fun

[Winter]

Wheres it at YellowDog?

[Big Dave]

I’m a manager, I have 32 direct reports. They give me employees who they have issues with to either get ride of them or performance manage them back to where they need to be.

If you’re an honest boss, who respects people, if you treat people how you would expect to be treated – you don’t really have too many problems.
I love managing my team - it's a lot of fun

I sales managed a team of up to 25 'AVJennings Home consultants' once.

Mucho prefer flying solo. I like how if something doesn't suit you can just walk.

I encourage people to try it - alternative work practices. particularly in Auckland and the traffic. That was my point before.

Personally - In my line of work - If I had a manager/editor/ art director who said to me 'Resign', I would.
Negotiate a reference, when to pick up the cheque for full entitlement, try for a bonus for going 'easy' and stand and walk out the door.
It's already all over rover.

Thus avoiding Lawyers, dossiers, stressful meetings, character assassination, workplace tension and if the employer has a good lawyer too - possibly not that big a payout in comparison.

[scracha]

Speaking as someone who had to pay out for an 'unusual' dismissal of someone who had worked for me for less than a week - it cost my company 10k.

Are you hiring?


Isn't there ever circumstances for instant dismissal in New Zealand? e.g. Employees physically fighting, adversely affecting the company image, that sort of thing.

[oldrider]

I sales managed a team of up to 25 'AVJennings Home consultants' once.

Mucho prefer flying solo. I like how if something doesn't suit you can just walk - and do something that does (suit.)

I encourage people to try it - alternative work practices. particularly in Auckland and the traffic. That was my badly made point before.

Personally - In my line of work - If I had a manager/editor/ art director who said to me 'Resign', I would.
Negotiate a reference, when to pick up the cheque for full entitlement, try for a bonus for going 'easy' and stand and walk out the door.
It's already all over rover.

Thus avoiding Lawyers, dossiers, stressful meetings, character assassination, workplace tension and if the employer has a good lawyer too - possibly not that big a payout in comparison.

Successful dismissal is all about diplomacy!

The "art" of diplomacy is:...Telling someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip!........Cheers John.

[YellowDog]

THE VERDICT

First of all, you guys have been absolutely fantastic. I have had some excellent advice. Some pertinent, some not however all constructive and helpful.

The PMs with offers of support and KBers willing to put themselves out to help and witness proceedings has been quite touching. I sort of knew how I wanted to play things however my views and confidence changed considerably as a result of such assistance before the meeting.

It was a really tough day yesterday and I am sorry for not posting last night, but I really was shattered and not really fit to put words to paper. I didn’t leave the office until after 7pm. I woke up today with a splitting headache and it has lasted for most of the day.

My preparation was quite interesting as having painted a picture to KBers that I believed to be the case, I was actually wrong. My position was far stronger than I thought. The written documentation says that I was of ‘superhero’ status for Aug/Sep/Oct being awarded Northern Region ‘Best performer’ with case of Champagne in October. I also had a letter dated 14 Dec 2007 stating what a significant contributor I was to the company and how I had an excellent future to look forward to with a promised performance review after the merger in April. So in effect I was relegated from Superhero on 14 Dec, one week before the seasonal break, and then 4 weeks after the start of the new year (14 Jan) actually reclassified as totally useless. All I have actually done in that time is followed the instructions of the person I was told was my new boss; who did not want me to follow the activities my old boss wanted me to. I spoke with my new boss and asked if she had a problem with me and did not want me in her team? She said that she hadn’t had much experience of working with me however she did say that she had no problem with me at all. She was a bit sheepish and it was clear they had been spoken to about their plans to dump me out. She told me that she had to leave it down to my old boss as he technically was still responsible for me until Mar 31. Excellent (not)!

I would say the day went well and I am happy with the result. I saw Rainman at lunchtime (as he only works next door) who gave me an alternative view based upon some highly pertinent experience. I went into battle at 1:30pm well prepared, but alone which is what I wanted for the initial meeting. I recorded the entire meeting and confirmed everything that we had said at the previous days meeting. I then spoke for about 30 minutes stating my case as to why I should stay at the company and what I had to achieved (ups and downs) and what I was looking forward to achieving under the new structure. It was constructive, upbeat, and positive. To get rid of me would be a big mistake and a costly one to the business.

The response I received was one of intransigence and inflexibility. It was illogical and irrational. There was no movement and I was presented with one of two options, as indeed I was yesterday. Option one: 2 months money to go now. Option two: We go to HR and start an uncomfortable process. It was made clear that it would not be a good time, so I suggested that option 2 could be far more uncomfortable for the company, not wanting to play my trump cards at this stage.

So I changed tact and suggested we cut to the chase. You want me to go, I want to stay. You are offering me peanuts to go so you are not going to get what you want unless you up the offer. To cut a much longer story short in explaining the cost of the uncomfortable route and the fact however you try and dress it up, they are being complete bastards (which he knew). I stated that I would like to part on good terms and I don’t understand why he does not want the same. There was then some movement, but not enough, considering my strong position. I then gave him the opportunity to move further and meet me half way to give any easy route out for them and save them a great deal of trouble. He said ‘no’, and I said ‘how do you know’. I left the meeting not accepting the ‘no’ saying let me know. He left the meeting saying I’ll get back to you in 2 hours. 15 minutes later I got the nod that we were OK. A good result with no threats, loss of tempers, or having to work the most uncomfortable six weeks of my life. It would have been uncomfortable regardless of this situation and being able to get my surgery with a reasonable healing time is priceless to me. I know that if I was still working there I would have done too much too quickly (self pressure).

Of course if we had gone for the HR/legal route there was no way I would have worked those six weeks. I had 20 sick days accrued and would probably not return after my knee surgery. The legally represented route would have been the one I would have taken and with confidence of having a very strong case. I have friends who are unemployable as a result of suing every employer they leave and this is something I would like to avoid in such an incestuous and small NZ IT industry. Everyone knows everyone and I have now parted on good terms. The main victory for me was getting someone totally immovable to move. Also the fact that he thrives on causing distress and bullying employees caused him frustration because I wouldn’t react. It was one of my better performances (and they are quite rare), which was mainly down to confidence in my own position. I admit after one or two of the more idiotic moments I had to send myself to my ‘happy place’ and then quickly back to continue, but I was cool as a cucumber.

After the meeting I went and saw HR and discussed being kicked out in this way. They have showed concern that I might sue their arses off. I have said that this is unlikely so long as they honour what has been agreed. To sue them is not my style and I am quite content with my new bike (oops – I mean settlement). I have received excellent support from colleagues and friends at work and this has been a highly demotivational to other staff who now feel under threat. I get on pretty well with most people and why some managers fail to understand that shitting in your own back yard is not productive or good for staff moral, is beyond me.

So me and my ex-boss are bosom buddies and all smiles (if you can call it that). He has even stumped up same cash for a leaving lunch (no thanks – I’d choke).

Ideally for me, I would like to stay off work until April or May (to give me a chance to run in my new bike), but unfortunately I already have 2 interviews

Thanks again guys. I will let you know if they don’t do as agreed. Some of those contacts I received were excellent.

[Big Dave]

Successful dismissal is all about diplomacy!

The "art" of diplomacy is:...Telling someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip!........Cheers John.

Unless the Peter Principle in invoked.