I'd like you to resign!!!

[smoky]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

This is what I was told this afternoon after returning from lunch. No discussion, no explanation.

yep - of course they want you to just 'leave now', save them some money. Ask them tomorrow to bing in the HR person, you'll get a better idea what's going on, and if they're a good HR person your boss will get told off for the way they have initiated this process.
The fact that you haven’t had any discussion or proper explanation as to why they are affectiively sacking you – would tell me you are either deluding your self or the company has put them selves into a very poor situation that you could take full advantage of.

I am having knee surgery at the end of Feb and don't expect to be fully mobile (to look for work) until the end of March at the earliest. ....

My plan is to discuss a severence package to tide me over until I am able to look for work again. However know that I would be better off looking for work whilst still in full time employment.

Yes - but, on a positive worst case senario, it's a good time to be looking for work - lot's of opportunities
You will buy more time fighting a little with them

I guess I should put the new bike on the back burner again. I wish I hadn't sold my old one.

They way they have started the process - if you play your cards right you will get enough to buy your bike out right, even if you're in the wrong.
I' know of employees who have been sexually harassing clients, thieves, and non performers - and even following employment law to the letter, they still ended up being paid out $5000 to $10000 - it's kind of reality in today’s employment environment

Any suggestions for tomorrow's meeting appreciated.

Yes – To fire you they first need to look at your lack of performance – or what it is that they are unhappy with, then in good faith begin a process of performance management to try to correct these things – by law they are required to this first, they need to show a clear process toward the point where they then seek to terminate your employment.

tomorrow it is important you don't say anything, commit to anything or give any indication you are going to take whatever they offer.
Don’t get into any personal discussions.
Take a pad and pen and take notes
Take a witness – very important
Treat it like it is only an opportunity for them to explain things to you.

If they push you for an answer – simply say you haven’t had enough time to consult an employment lawyer – nothing else, don’t try to explain yourself.

Use every chance you can to stall the proceedings – try really hard to put tomorrows meeting off until you have got good advice.

What would be a really good result for you is if they get all pissy about it and send you home – it’ll increase your final compensation payout.

Then start looking around for an employment lawyer – and get a ‘Personal Grievance’ claim underway – I will tell you now – it is cheaper to give you $5000 to $10000 compensation to get ride of you, than pay for lawyers to fight a PG. On top of that they will owe you full pay from the time they send you home until settlement – during which time you can recover from your knee operation.

[Usarka]

Simply say that you are seeking professional advice and they will be hearing from you in due course. Have no meetings with him that doesn't have a support person for you (it can be a partner, friend, family or lawyer). Take notes really obviously, take your time and folow "due process" of documenting and recording ...

good advice.

And ask for a copy of any notes/minutes he takes from meetings that you do have.

[Unit:Me]

Bloody good advice and bang on. Its hard to be brave and keep cool when you are being so directly assaulted, that is, your employer discarding you abruptly.
Definitely use tomorrow as an information gathering day, and not an information giving day, make them work hard for access to your point of view

[Oakie]

I'll post more shortly. Something is rattling around in my brain trying to get out.

It got out. Firstly, if you don't have time to get a proper employment specialist to help you tomorrow, you are still entitled to take anyone in as a support person. At least for the value of having a witness, you do need someone else there. Get them to take notes on what was said. If you do go that way, don't commit yourself to any course of action at the meeting. Tell them you will consider what has been said and get back to them.
What was rattling around in my brain though is that you need to lock him into what he told you today. Say at the start of the meeting "you told me yesterday that it's not working out and you want me to resign. I need you to tell me what it is that is making it 'not work out'." Hopefully he will give you some reason and if he does it means he won't be able to introduce any other matters later on when his HR team tell him what an idiot he has been.
If he can't give a reason, well he's pretty stuffed too.
Bottom line is that if he does comes up with something that is performance related and not serious misconduct he needs to go through a performance management process rather than just saying he wants you gone. Don't be bullied into anything. You actually are in a strong position to retain your job for a few months if you want to stay there.

[riffer]

Been in this situation twice. Both times consulted lawyer immediately. Both times got awarded significant sums of money. Can't comment more but here's the rules:

Employer's reasons for dismissal

An employee who has been dismissed may ask the employer for a written statement setting out the reasons for the dismissal. They must do this within 60 days after the dismissal or after the date they became aware of it, whichever is later.
The employer must give the statement to the employee within 14 days after being asked. This information may be important in later efforts to resolve the problem. Also, if the employer does not provide this statement, the employee will be able to raise a personal grievance after the 90-day period.
Three-year limitation period on personal grievances

Employees may not start a personal grievance action in the Employment Relations Authority or the Employment Court more than three years after they have raised it with the employer.
Remedies for personal grievances

An employee with a grievance claim may ask the employer for any remedy the employee thinks appropriate. If the grievance goes to the Employment Relations Authority, the following types of remedy can be asked for.
Reinstatement

The Authority may order that an employee be put back in his or her previous position or a similar one that is not worse for the employee.
If the personal grievance is found to be valid and the employee asks for reinstatement, the Authority must order it if it is practicable.
The employer must carry out the Authority's decision, even if the decision is under appeal, unless the Authority or the Court orders otherwise.
Interim reinstatement

The Authority can order the employee to be reinstated until the personal grievance is heard, if the employee asks for this. The Authority may impose conditions when ordering reinstatement.
Reimbursement

If an employee has lost wages or other money as a result of the grievance, the Employment Relations Authority can order the employer to pay all or part of the lost amount. Unless the Authority thinks that the employee was partly to blame, it must order the employer to pay at least all lost money up to three months' ordinary time wages, and may award more.
Compensation

The Authority may order the employer to pay money to the employee for:

• any effects on the employee personally, such as humiliation, loss of dignity or injury to his or her feelings
• the loss of any benefit which the employee might reasonably have expected if the grievance had not arisen.

[Pex Adams]

Tomorrow morning go to your nearest bike shop, take a bike for a spin - and the best course of action will come to you...

FREEEEeeeeeeedddddooommm!!!!

However in saying that - tell them you don't want to leave. You like it here, and haven't completed what you came to achieve. It might be a load of shit, but atleast it'll buy you some time.

HR love that shit, and know that the its a lot easier to put performance measures in place, then actually going down the track of kicking you out.

Get your priorities straight, and take it from there. Good Luck.

[FJRider]

The hard way takes time. I'm supprised they talked to you about it first.

Look for a new job while your being managed out of the role.

Also discuss this with your new boss, see if he wants you to stay. (take a voice recorder)

On the other hand, you might just be shit at your job, and you deserve to be fired.

I agree, but dont TELL HIM you got a voice recorder.Check your employment contract for amount of NOTICE that must be given. 0800 WE HELP is an outfit that sorts out employment issues,payment ONLY if they WIN. Might be worth a call. It can be a shit fight for an employer/boss to dismiss a staff member. Possible reasons for INSTANT dismissal are (normally) stated in your employment contract. AND... ANY WARNINGS (written or verbal) that MUST be given. ASK THAT ANY COMMUNICATIONS FROM HIM TO YOU, ON THE SUBJECT OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT, BE IN WRITING. "For your LAWYER to study"
JUST DONT LOSE YOUR COOL

[Hitcher]

This is a classic case of what's called wrongful dismissal. Do not resign. Get a lawyer. The good news is that you're probably going to get a very nice payout.

[MadDuck]

All very good advice so far but there are always two sides to a story. I have been on both.

Main thing has already been suggested. Keep any emotions out of it! You want to know the facts and only the facts at this point.

Let them do ALL the talking because you have time to respond under the Act. Take a witness hell even if its the cleaner (you are entitled to this with 24 hours notice) even if they just take notes actually at this point i would recommend SAYING NOTHING.

Record all the facts. DONT make suggestions about where you might fit in the future. There is a cool down period if they dont adhere to it THEN you have grounds for a case.

[LilSel]

Dont resign... Let them do it 'their' way, it takes way longer... then when you have surgery... they gotta pay 80% of your wages till your recovered... you can look for a new job over that time??... fingers X'd by that time you'd have found something, give your notice when you have something else secured... hey presto no financial difficulties (apart from the -20%)... time to find a new job... n they dont 'win'...



(...so long as you havent done something that can be considered 'serious missconduct' etc...)

[McJim]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

Fuckme - I thought Dover had left the country now I find that you're working for him

Seriously though - have you had any written or verbal warnings before this shitfight happened?

[T.W.R]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

This is what I was told this afternoon after returning from lunch. No discussion, no explanation.

He then agreed to give me 24 hours to consider what I should do.

I had no idea where this came from. I suspect that she has confronted him with this and he is kicking me out was this knee jerk reaction.

The surprising part is that my new boss will not actually be my boss until April 1, so my old boss can do as he pleases, which he has.


My plan is to discuss a severence package to tide me over until I am able to look for work again. However know that I would be better off looking for work whilst still in full time employment.


Any suggestions for tomorrow's meeting appreciated.

As Per the Employment Law Guide:

Just as an employee can terminate an employment agreement by giving the employer appropriate notice, an employer may seek to terminate an agreement by GIVING the employee appropriate notice. If the employee accepts the dismissal, that may be an end to the matter.
But this is not what usually happens. An employer cannot terminate an agreement without good reason: in other words, employment is not terminable at the will of the employer. And the law gives employees the right, and the means, to challenge dismissals --- by using the personal grievance procedures of the Employment Relations Act

I've got access to pages of the dos & don'ts of Termination of Employment

But if what you said occurred as it did then you've got all the rights to file a personal grievance against your employer and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on

[BarBender]

What is your employment status i.e. Are you a contractor,temporary,casual or permanent employee?

Either way you need to refer to what ever contract is in place to see what that says. Obviously if you are contractor you may be on a weeks notice...

However if you are a permanent...
You're first priority is to defer tomorrows meeting and refer to your employment agreement. Do you have one? If so refer to those sections under termination clause and process for handling employee disputes. It should state quite clearly what your rights are and what the process is. If not - they are in breech of the Employment Relations Act - this is legislation ie law to protect employees.

Secondly - send an email to your manager saying that you need time to view your contract and that you believe that what he has done is out of line and a possible breach of the terms and conditions of your employment - specifically there has been no consultation, no reason for what appears to be constructive dismissal and that you may be seeking legal advice.

Good luck

[Qkkid]

Take a dictaphone in your pocket dont tell them till the end of the meeting ,let them put their foot in it ,then screw them over.If there is a settlement it will be alot bigger after they know you have recorded the meeting.

[YellowDog]

I am quite shocked by this amazing response.

A VERY BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU (even the ones who think I deserve it)

Some excellent advice from both (flee or fight) sides of the fence.

No I haven't done anything wrong (that I know of). I believe it is as simple as I have upset him by daring to alert my new boss to the problems I have experienced and that she is also likely to experience whilst working with this man. I do not know however but I still suspect it was just a knee jerk reaction.

When he said it to me I was quite shocked, but almost laughed. Yes he is quite a fool and made it very clear that he wanted to avoid HR and lawyers (his easy route).

I have told a couple of colleagues after the "What was that all about" whom were really shocked and are now fearful for their own roles.

Amazingly enough, the last email he sent me before Christmas was to tell me what a great job I was doing - Pityful.

I will see how it goes tomorrow. I will ask for 4 months and be willing to accept 3. He has already offered me 2 months to resign.

I would prefer to leave on good terms, but not too cheaply. I also have a risk to consider if my knee operation doesn't go too well.

If I don't get offered 3 months, then I will fight through HR and lawyers if necessary whilst I search for another job.

Great suggestion about the recording, yes I will record the conversation confirming what was said yesterday.

So far as losing my cool goes, I am more likely to burst out laughing. I guess I could always make laughing seem like crying (for a short while).

Thanks again everyone.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

Almost as good as Shortland Street!