Question for JD Racing and Robert T

[Robert Taylor]

Interestingly, I've seen this very regularly in my own very short racing career. Shaun's a nice enough bloke to have helped me immensly from the beginning of this.

When I first rode his 600 at Puke' in April last year, I took it easy for the first practice session and felt thoroughly uncomfortable. The bike felt "pitchy" and unstable. Second session and I decided to see what I could do on the current setup. As soon as I got aggressive, the bike got good. And I mean REAL good. I felt like I could get away with murder on it

I witnessed exactly the same thing at a following trackday. A suspension tuner had a fiddle with a racers SV650. The racer sent his mate racer for a test ride who promptly proclaimed the bike was crap and they'd just undone six months of hard work. The racer then rode the bike himself, stating the exact same thing. The tuner thinks "This can't be right!" climbs on the bike himself and runs three laps 5 seconds per lap quicker than the racers. All they needed to do was get aggressive with the thing.

I think this is where the difference lies between a well set up track bike and road bike. You simply can't ride a bike on the road with the aggression to make a well set up race bike handle well.

Make sense? Thought not

Also, as a novice racer gets faster they demand firmer settings. ALSO, a bike set up for the winter series ( low track and tyre temps ) will be a wobbly piece of jelly in the middle of the summer nats.

[jrandom]

Goddammit, this thread is making me want a racebike.

[White trash]

Stay posted re TTX cartridges, I worked with 600 Supersport ones at Philip Island and they are very very good.

Certainly hope I'm on the waiting list for a pair of them critters.

[FROSTY:Me]

I witnessed exactly the same thing at a following trackday. A suspension tuner had a fiddle with a racers SV650. The racer sent his mate racer for a test ride who promptly proclaimed the bike was crap and they'd just undone six months of hard work. The racer then rode the bike himself, stating the exact same thing. The tuner thinks "This can't be right!" climbs on the bike himself and runs three laps 5 seconds per lap quicker than the racers. All they needed to do was get aggressive with the thing.

Yup couldn't agree more--cept you missed one lil bit out--said tuner told said racer to "ride the fucking thing like its soposed to be ridden-fast"
The bike felt a shit load better being ridden at a more agressive pace -or so Im told

[cowpoos]

I feel happy to provide such service and as a reality check it needs to be re-iterated that a whole lot of it is goodwill at no charge.

This is totally true...and you have been known to shout the odd compeditor a beer the night before a race Can't ask for better service than that I reckon!!

Stay posted re TTX cartridges, I worked with 600 Supersport ones at Philip Island and they are very very good.

I'll take a set!!

I'm not convinced of the whole runaway train concept, a correctly balanced shock will respond very rapidly

In context...the X distance traveled at Y speed...and with how many shock movements taking place for bumps only?? not including other forces placed on the unit...I'm sure the milliseconds would add up??

I have been notified today that we will have a Swedish engineer out from Ohlins later in the year so we will be planning some sort of seminars. As these guys are at the very top of the game in the motorcycle suspension world this will be something to look forward to....

Sounds awesome..would really like to attened that!

[Teambwr47]

If there's a chance to put my name down for any seminar that takes place Robert then please add my name to the list.

[Robert Taylor]

This is totally true...and you have been known to shout the odd compeditor a beer the night before a race Can't ask for better service than that I reckon!!



I'll take a set!!



In context...the X distance traveled at Y speed...and with how many shock movements taking place for bumps only?? not including other forces placed on the unit...I'm sure the milliseconds would add up??



Sounds awesome..would really like to attened that!

You will have to get your spelling sorted first and improve your dress sense!

[Robert Taylor]

If there's a chance to put my name down for any seminar that takes place Robert then please add my name to the list.

Okay, it will be a prerequisite ( not unaturally ) that attendees are first and foremost exclusive Ohlins customers as space will be limited.

[Sensei]

Hope that means seen my bike is the real deal not add on parts then i'll be
1st in line Robert & I want mind making you the coffee this time ! LOL

[cowpoos]

You will have to get your spelling sorted first and improve your dress sense!

Your lecturing me about dress sence!!! Oh dear! I'm lost for avalible and applicable words!!...and even if I knew some...And could spell them...I would mis-spell them out of jest!!

[JD Racing]

The proof though has been in the pudding and if it is milliseconds ( which I have always thought ) then that is enough. All of the other factors you mention are a relative constant, but if you have a shock that is more reactive more quickly then it makes sense. If you do better work at the very start of stroke there is then less effort required to control movement later on. ( I know that sounds simple ) Heck, you and I have played around with settings that mess with hysterisis ( delay or otherwise in damping buildup ) and noticed a difference. So minimising the delay is a good thing.

Yes indeed they are dump valves and although some people maligned the Ohlins one I have found the response range to be quite reasonable, and it is a ''slope adjuster''

I didnt say I hate that shock, just the ill informed and frankly incorrect hype that is going on about no revalving required. My own dyno graphs concur that it is a mid speed adjuster that gives a second knee that does nothing to the slope angle, it just parrallells it. Personally, I think it is more ideal to alter the slope angle, especially for bumpy tracks and my own experience working with both systems confirms that.

I don't know how you can say all the other factors remain constant, if I change from a Pirelli to a Dunlop, I just decreased my response time, if I change from a steel spring to a Ti spring I just decreased my response time, if I never ever strip clean and lubricate my linkage I just increased my response time, I could tighten my chain like a bowstring, severly increasing my response time and so it goes on, there are a whole mass of variables between the input at the wheel and the shock.

We both know that what shows up on the dyno need not have any bearing whatsoever in what happens on the bike.

[Robert Taylor]

I don't know how you can say all the other factors remain constant, if I change from a Pirelli to a Dunlop, I just decreased my response time, if I change from a steel spring to a Ti spring I just decreased my response time, if I never ever strip clean and lubricate my linkage I just increased my response time, I could tighten my chain like a bowstring, severly increasing my response time and so it goes on, there are a whole mass of variables between the input at the wheel and the shock.

We both know that what shows up on the dyno need not have any bearing whatsoever in what happens on the bike.

I think that is splitting hairs, the intent included the tyres remaining constant, and the springing etc. You misconstrued and certainly I am very abundantly aware of the differences between Pirelli and Dunlop.

I am also aware of both the very real value and the limitations of dynos. Those with rather less understanding who condemn them conveniently forget that the shocks they race with owe part of their development to dyno testing

[slowpoke]

You will have to get your spelling sorted first and improve your dress sense!

Are you kiddin' me, 'Poos has got a "fabulous" collection of dresses....

[Shaun]

I think that is splitting hairs, the intent included the tyres remaining constant, and the springing etc. You misconstrued and certainly I am very abundantly aware of the differences between Pirelli and Dunlop.

I am also aware of both the very real value and the limitations of dynos. Those with rather less understanding who condemn them conveniently forget that the shocks they race with owe part of their development to dyno testing

Who would condemn your shock Dyno machine? Between your OLD test riders and that machine, your knoledge has grown hugely

[Shaun]

Interestingly, I've seen this very regularly in my own very short racing career. Shaun's a nice enough bloke to have helped me immensly from the beginning of this.

When I first rode his 600 at Puke' in April last year, I took it easy for the first practice session and felt thoroughly uncomfortable. The bike felt "pitchy" and unstable. Second session and I decided to see what I could do on the current setup. As soon as I got aggressive, the bike got good. And I mean REAL good. I felt like I could get away with murder on it

I witnessed exactly the same thing at a following trackday. A suspension tuner had a fiddle with a racers SV650. The racer sent his mate racer for a test ride who promptly proclaimed the bike was crap and they'd just undone six months of hard work. The racer then rode the bike himself, stating the exact same thing. The tuner thinks "This can't be right!" climbs on the bike himself and runs three laps 5 seconds per lap quicker than the racers. All they needed to do was get aggressive with the thing.

I think this is where the difference lies between a well set up track bike and road bike. You simply can't ride a bike on the road with the aggression to make a well set up race bike handle well.

Make sense? Thought not

Good input mate, The point I was leading to here was as you have put it as well as JD Reference to his racer rider

Differnt courses for different horses.

JD reference, showed that his race riders set up needs to be ridden fast and hard to work and feel at it's best safest settings ( as well as uping the concentration level of the rider)

Where as a slower rider, on the road or the race track, needs a different setting so the bike still feels nice and safe!

So yea, you can go out and spend $2000+ on really good trick front end parts, but I honestly believe, the average road rider does not need this set up at all! Having said that, if you have the cash to spare, and love to know and grow in the motorcycle game, spend away, you will not regret it!

As far as rear shocks go, Penske or Ohlin"s, I have ridden and raced on both! Standard as they come from the factory, they are both bloody great quality!