Question for JD Racing and Robert T

[Shaun]

Guys, what is your opinion on this

OK, we have a bike sitting in front of us, lets say it is all set up ( ie, the suspension settings) for a fast track racer, say Craig Shirrif or Dom Jones

these guys can do a 1.47.6 lap time on it, which is quicker than lap record of last year

Now give that same bike to a rider to use on the road, all suspension settings still as per the track,

To the average road rider-

1) Would the bike probally feel fantastic?

2) Or would the bike probally feel very harsh on bumps etc


I know the question is a bit limited ( But so am I ) but am also very sure you both will understand the question fully

[Mental Trousers]

Be interesting to see what they have to say, but I know from experience that it's scary. Mainly because you can feel the potential the bike has and being on the road it's just out right dangerous because it's performance is totally mismatched to being on the road. The thing just wants to go and feels like it's just idling at 100kph, and that's just on a 650. It's kinda like how the latest litre bikes are total overkill, but it's more so with a race bike.

[Shaun]

It will be interesting to here there opinion on this, as they will understand exactually what I am saying


My thoughts are, that a bike set up for race track usage, is far to hard/ferm all over in it;s settings, to be a nice, safe, fast, road bike

Remember, I won Road races, using standard suspension forks, apart from springs and oil only!

[FROSTY:Me]

Ok if its been propperly set up for the track its gonna be too harsh and will also not ride well over potholes due to another aspect of ractrack suspension setup.
I've wondered if the best suspenstion for BOTS is usind a firm road setup as oposed to a race setup.
Then again what the heck would I know??

[Colapop]

I'd say that the ride feel is known (ie. the suspension is harder etc) but how much will normal road rider know what the difference is? I am by no means a good rider at all and although I guess the bike would be a little more difficult to ride the rider would adjust to it...? Is that more what you mean Shaun? As I said I wouldn't know the difference apart from it being a bit twitchy - I'd adjust how I ride accordingly. At least that's what I'm guessing.

[cowpoos]

I'm Not Robert or JD...but having ridden bikes in the circumstances you discribed I have an opinion..

A bike set up on the racetrack...feels like shit on the road!!
Dispite the fact bumps are still bumps etc.. Wheelspin OMG!! all it wanted to do was wheelspin out of corners!! [which was incidently quite fun] but in breif..to hard,jaring..front wheel moves alot side to side [not to the point of a tank slapper...but alot of little sideways movement]...wheeling...it had a definate want to wheelie..off small rises or even sharp edge bumps..

Robert set up a TL1000s for me with traxxion pistons and ohlins shock..and sprung correctly,etc...and since I have never felt a roadbike that installed confidence like that one did...the feel at the front end was second to none!! I wish darely I will beable to have that sort of front end feel again some day...and the trust I had in leaning it over!! I used to without a lie! scrape the exhaust pipe [they were high pipes too] around the hairpin on the old taupo track and hav my inside foot off the peg because it was almost fully folded up!! [thinking about it now...I'm surprised I didn't I didn't crash!!]

I had a bit of a point to make while posting this...but I seem to have forgot what it was now I'm half way through typing it.

[cowpoos]

I had a bit of a point to make while posting this...but I seem to have forgot what it was now I'm half way through typing it.

Ah...remeber it now.

Feel...what is different about modern sportsbikes in reguard to front end feel??

older sportsbikes used to give better front feel...and it seems like modern bikes are more distant is this department...and I know for a fact its not just me that has noticed that...numerous people I've talked about re: this have the same conclusion and not just average riders a muti NZ champ agreed with me whole heartedly about this too!!

[maybe I should start a new thread on this issuse?]

[JD Racing]

It depends on what the racer likes, I do a lot of work with a guy who likes a very particular set up, he was leading a race by 20+ seconds so backed off, he said the bike felt so shit when he was no longer loading the suspension at race pace he had to speed up again because the bike was scaring him.

Other riders who go through all the transitions very smoothly, brake, lay the bike on it's side, pick it up again on the throttle all in one very smooth flowing arc, hardly upsetting the bike, you could ride their bike down to the shops with a tray of eggs on the back and not smash one.

[FROSTY:Me]

It depends on what the racer likes, I do a lot of work with a guy who likes a very particular set up, he was leading a race by 20+ seconds so backed off, he said the bike felt so shit when he was no longer loading the suspension at race pace he had to speed up again because the bike was scaring him.

I guess then a suspension man needs to look not only at what should be the optimum setting for that bike on that track "in theory" but also needs to factor in the riding style of the rider -or perhaps even point on the learning curve they are at ?

[Shaun]

It depends on what the racer likes, I do a lot of work with a guy who likes a very particular set up, he was leading a race by 20+ seconds so backed off, he said the bike felt so shit when he was no longer loading the suspension at race pace he had to speed up again because the bike was scaring him.

Other riders who go through all the transitions very smoothly, brake, lay the bike on it's side, pick it up again on the throttle all in one very smooth flowing arc, hardly upsetting the bike, you could ride their bike down to the shops with a tray of eggs on the back and not smash one.

Yea, I have a friend that will not join sites like this, BUT READS IT A LOT! and I was suggesting to him, that my personell set up for a race bike, will not be ideal for him for using on the road, as we ride at a very different pace, so I have said that we should work on his own personell set up, as what one man likes, another may not!

He has already contacted me since reading your reply, and it seems we now understand each other a bit better, he now realises that what works for one man, might not work for another.

[kiwifruit]

what if a shock with high and low speed compression damping is used?

High speed refers to the velocity of the wheel moving up and down, not how fast the bike is moving around the track. Low speed compression is "firmness" or "feel". High speed compression is "bumps".You need to be able to "dial in low speed compression" to restore chassis feel. Once your bike is set up to have a firm feel and be compliant over bumps, you will be able to return a smooth track and change little or nothing. The bike will not need to soak as many bumps, and it will still feel firm.

[Shaun]

I'd say that the ride feel is known (ie. the suspension is harder etc) but how much will normal road rider know what the difference is? I am by no means a good rider at all and although I guess the bike would be a little more difficult to ride the rider would adjust to it...? Is that more what you mean Shaun? As I said I wouldn't know the difference apart from it being a bit twitchy - I'd adjust how I ride accordingly. At least that's what I'm guessing.

Kind of yea man! I was having a talk with a freind of mine about setting up his GSXR 1000, he asked me to just set it all up as I would have for my own track usage, but he only rides on the road, and as I know what the roads are like as A RIDER, I suggested we did not do that, and worked on his own set up, so he got a bike he liked the most

He has now read the reply given by JD Racing, and now realises that settings need to be made for the riders pace and now understands how one mans set up may or not work for a different rider

[Shaun]

what if a shock with high and low speed compression damping is used?

PARDON? Sorry man, missed the question there???????

[kiwifruit]

PARDON? Sorry man, missed the question there???????

Isn't the point of having high and low speed compression damping to reduce the compromise between smooth and bumpy set ups?
I may well be talking shit

[Shaun]

Isn't the point of having high and low speed compression damping to reduce the compromise between smooth and bumpy set ups?
I may well be talking shit

You have got that part write! BUt there is more to a shock set up than just High and Low compression settings, spring rate, sags, Rebound, ride height, shims etc etc etc