Legalise Crystal Meth?

**SixPackBack** · 16th February 2008, 13:53

Originally Posted by Steam

Lamest troll ever on KB

I think not.

I have long held the belief ALL drugs should be legalised. Before you start flapping your wings or call me a drug addict let me explain.

First of all I do not consume illegal drugs of any description, I occasionally take legal pain killers for a chronic neck complaint.

Drugs presently are illegal, however this does not encompass two of the most vile drugs consumed [alcohol and tobacco] the hypocrisy surrounding drugs,alcohol and tobaco make a mockery out of our current laws and seriously question the sanity of current legislation. It could easily be argued corruption must play a part at the highest level.

Alcohol and tobacco addiction is classified as an illness to be treated by the medical community. Why is drug addiction then treated as a crime?
Drug addiction should at a certain level be treated as a sickness, our jails our full of individuals whose only crime is an addictive personality [something keen motorcyclists share].

A more recent phenomonen is the 'legal' druggie, shopping at several Doctors for prescription drugs that cause every bit as much misery as meth and 'P' [cue Heath Ledger]

The system does not work, is based on American law and order and is ready for change. I advocate complete legalisation of all drugs and compounds not to please the druggies, but to highlight those that need help and cannot come forward at the moment for fear of prison time.

Drug addiction is a medical issue NOT a law and order issue

Flame away but please keep it civil.

**Mikkel** · 16th February 2008, 14:07

I must say I back SPB in this one.

However, I voted no - simply because I don't think P should be legalised more than any other drug. So singling it out for legilisation would be a poor plan IMHO.

To me it's not so much a question of whether it's a medical issue as it's a matter of personal freedom. I don't think that you can consider a society free if the government can tell you what substances you're allowed to consume and which you are not.
Making hashish illegal but not tobacco and alcohol is about as random as saying you're not allowed to buy trim milk - but normal and butter are ok!

Furthermore, a lot of crime is based on the fact that providing access to restricted substances is a lucrative business. Buy making these substances legal and subjected to mild taxation (like alcohol and tobacco) the goverment would kill three birds with one stone: 1. remove one of the main foundations for organised crime, 2. strike a significant blow to the black market economy and 3. secure a considerable amount of income from taxation.

Seems a no brainer to me.
And yes, I know there are people who get their lives fucked over by drugs - but the same is true for alcohol, cigarettes, over-eating, stress, etc.

**Lauza** · 16th February 2008, 14:57

Woah hold up.. without getting into an argument about whether or not alcohol and tobacco should be legal or not... why would you want other "harder" drugs to be legalised?

Seriously.. if it's legal, we would have more people hooked on it and then more people needing medical help for the addiction in the first place.. How would legalising it make it easier to help those people?

Wouldn't it be more helpful to change the way in which we deal with those who are addicts? Like for instance, treating them in a similar way to those with tobacco, alcohol, gambling addictions etc.. instead of just putting them in prison with no rehabilitation? Like the equivalent of rehab, AA meetings and home detention maybe as opposed to prison time?

But making it legal would just mean we would end up with more people needing help in the first place wouldn't it.. and whose to say they would come foward for help, even though alcohol etc are legal it doesnt mean more people are actually asking for help. There is still a definate stigma about being an addict of any kind.. maybe we also need to change societies view ie. "its okay to ask for help"...

I could be wrong on a few points, i'm not an expert on how convicted addicts are treated. But just my opinion.

**MIXONE** · 16th February 2008, 15:14

FFS if you have had any experience with people sucked into this shit you wouldn't even contemplate making it easier to get.It fucks people over big time.Tobacco,booze,e,acid all mother's milk compared to this shit.

**Mikkel** · 16th February 2008, 15:27

The argument that making stuff legal would make it easier to obtain and therefore more would become addited is flawed.

Honestly, is there anyone here who can seriously argue that even if they wanted to try a certain drug they would not be able to obtain it? Wouldn't know anyone who might know someone, who might be able to introduce you to people being able to dig something up for you?

I'm curious.

I'm not arguing that there's an unlimited (or even easy) access to all drugs in NZ - but you can get it. Ps popularity owes a lot to the fact you can quite easily make it in your own kitchen...

Also, noone is arguing that P is good for you. Quite actually would I argue that next to noone would be taking P if they had as easy access to proper amphetamines, coke, opiates, morphine, etc. Drugs that will not do you any favours for sure, but they're not as nasty as P.

**SixPackBack** · 16th February 2008, 15:43

Originally Posted by MIXONE

FFS if you have had any experience with people sucked into this shit you wouldn't even contemplate making it easier to get.It fucks people over big time.Tobacco,booze,e,acid all mother's milk compared to this shit.

To a certain extent I agree MIXONE. My brother-in law who I loved dearly, died after a two year binge on 'P'........he was 35....

Cannabis was my drug of choice for 15 years, I became a heavy user as a young man while still living at home with my parents.

Had the medical community [and not the Police] held the strings of power re: addiction, my brother-in-law would have found it far easier to get help without fear of recrimination. Similarly, if the emphasis community wide was on rehabilitation and not criminalisation help would have possibly been more forth coming for my issue.

I know 'P' sucks all to well, but putting individuals in hospital not prison is the answer.

And with respect to your comments on Tobacco, I think you will find that far out strips any other drug in terms of deaths. Because the user is not generally spinning out of control like a heavy 'P' user, does nothing to change the statistics on its use.

**Steam** · 16th February 2008, 15:50

Originally Posted by Mikkel

The argument that making stuff legal would make it easier to obtain and therefore more would become addited is flawed.

No, no it's not.

Tobacco.

Perfect, conclusive example.

**Jiminy** · 16th February 2008, 16:23

It shouldn't be legalized. If it were legal, it would become banal and common to use it (and probably widespread) like alcohol or tobacco. And, I'm sure youngsters would turn to the next illegal thing that ought to be stronger.

Plus, we already have enough drunk drivers on our roads, let's not add people on drugs.

Should alcohol really be legal when most drugs are not? Well, I think that society has a much longer experience and tradition with alcohol than almost any drug, so social pressure creates some acceptable boundaries (although I'm revising this judgement since I've arrived in NZ). However, the laws should be targeted at the sellers and producers of illegal drugs, whereas consumers should receive help instead.

Originally Posted by Mikkel

Honestly, is there anyone here who can seriously argue that even if they wanted to try a certain drug they would not be able to obtain it? Wouldn't know anyone who might know someone, who might be able to introduce you to people being able to dig something up for you?

I do. It would take me some effort and the help of other people to find any type of illegal drug, whereas I can easily find legal ones by walking into the appropriate shop.

**James Deuce** · 16th February 2008, 16:27

I want paracetamol banned. It's lethal and people eat it like it's a sweety.

**Finn** · 16th February 2008, 16:42

Originally Posted by Mort

It is without doubt the most evil drug ever invented.

Wrong. Heroin was. Harlem was happy street until it arrived.

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th February 2008, 17:21

How's this for a scenario...
Make all drugs legal. Control of the trade leaves the gangs, with a serious reduction in income for them. They then have to resort to more of the other crimes - burglary, car theft, stand-over, perhaps even kidnap for ransom....
BUT of course, the govt has increased it's tax take tenfold so PAYE won't apply for the first $50,000 of your income thereby leaving you with more in your pocket - which you can spend on protecting you and your family from the aforesaid gangs.
Neat, eh?

FUCK THAT

There's KBers I'd remove from 'ignore' before I'd make something like P legal.

**riffer** · 16th February 2008, 19:18

Stupid troll.

Anyone with any experience in the damage abuse of methamphetamine does to family members wouldn't even think of legalisation.

from Wikipedia:

Methamphetamine was first synthesized from ephedrine in Japan in 1893 by chemist Nagayoshi Nagai.^[3] In 1919, crystallized methamphetamine was synthesized by Akira Ogata via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine. The related compound amphetamine was first synthesized in Germany in 1887 by Lazăr Edeleanu.

Methamphetamine is a potent neurotoxin, shown to cause dopaminergic degeneration.^[12]^[13] High doses of methamphetamine produce losses in several markers of brain dopamine and serotonin neurons. Dopamine and serotonin concentrations, dopamine and 5HT uptake sites, and tyrosine and tryptophan hydroxylase activities are reduced after the administration of methamphetamine. It has been proposed that dopamine plays a role in methamphetamine induced neurotoxicity because experiments which reduce dopamine production or block the release of dopamine decrease the toxic effects of methamphetamine administration. When dopamine breaks down it produces reactive oxygen species such as hydrogen peroxide. It is likely that the oxidative stress that occurs after taking methamphetamine mediates its neurotoxicity. It has been demonstrated that a high ambient temperature increases the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine.^{I can't think of how legalisation will make consumption of it less. It's not a drug people take because it's "cool"}

**RantyDave** · 16th February 2008, 19:33

Originally Posted by MIXONE

FFS if you have had any experience with people sucked into this shit you wouldn't even contemplate making it easier to get.

I've just PD'd this thread, and this is why. The potential to offend the crap out of anyone has as even seen someone have their lives destroyed by this drug makes (IMHO) the entire thread PD worthy. By all means debate drug legislation but, honestly, FFS.

Dave